Author Topic: Good HD pictures of Jaeger castings  (Read 1508 times)

Offline foresterdj

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Good HD pictures of Jaeger castings
« on: August 04, 2023, 01:58:52 AM »
I have been gathering parts for a pair of Jaegers for my winter projects. I understand and see from the castings I have so far, that there will be a lot of detail chasing. I am wondering where good HD pictures of what these pieces are supposed to look like could be found. It seems a good clear picture might help me guide my cleanup work. Pieces I have so far include these from Muzzleloader Builders Supply.
Chiseled buttplate, triggerguard, and thimble set and a Carlsbad side plate. All in German silver.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Good HD pictures of Jaeger castings
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2023, 02:10:20 AM »
I believe Ron Scott made these molds from originals he has owned or has borrowed. You might contact him for pictures of the originals.
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Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Good HD pictures of Jaeger castings
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2023, 02:32:38 AM »
Hermann Historica auction catalogues can keep a person occupied for quite a while. There are a few Gunmaker’s who really know styles and schools of jaegers over time. I’m not one of them.  My point is there’s a lot of variety. “Jaeger” is like “longrifle”.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Grischi

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Re: Good HD pictures of Jaeger castings
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2023, 06:18:23 AM »
The book 'Steinschloss-Jägerbüchsen' by Erhard Wolf is a good source with high quality pictures of dozends of Jaeger rifles as well as much background information.
Christian
« Last Edit: August 04, 2023, 07:45:46 AM by Grischi »

Offline PhDBrewer

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Re: Good HD pictures of Jaeger castings
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2023, 06:54:09 AM »
I was able to take a few images. These are lower resolution but I will try and get some high resolution uploaded.
https://phdbrewer.com/Jaeger_rifles/

I just used the "create web page" from Lightroom. It compressed the images. Since I am building one on these Jäger, I have taken lots of images. Let me know if you what large images... they are about 50 mb each...
Hope this helps.

I will be bringing some of Erhard's new books to the CLA show. This is his 2nd book, not the one referenced above. Let me know if you will be at the show and would like to purchase one.

Will post more layer. Been really busy.

Offline PhDBrewer

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Re: Good HD pictures of Jaeger castings
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2023, 07:42:48 AM »
https://phdbrewer.com/Jaeger_rifles/content/919A5553_large.html
This is the side plate from page 9.
Hope this helps...

William

Online bama

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Re: Good HD pictures of Jaeger castings
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2023, 04:22:54 PM »
Here are some pictures of a Jaeger that I built using Ron Scott's castings. I hope that these will help, I am not a Jaeger expert like Ron but he has great castings which help me tremendously. Ron has also posted one of his Jaeger's recently which has some good photo's of his project.

These are the before and after pictures of Ron's castings. His castings do require some cleanup and a little re-chasing of the engraving but I think they are of very good quality and turned out great.





























Jim Parker

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Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Good HD pictures of Jaeger castings
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2023, 04:40:12 PM »
The original rifle is still in my possession. I should be able to help you out with any additional photos one the CLA show is over.

Offline foresterdj

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Re: Good HD pictures of Jaeger castings
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2023, 09:14:55 PM »
Thanks all for the good pictures and I look forward to more from Ron when he has the time. I looked at the castings I have with a big magnifying glass and can see better what some of the shapes are. With just my bifocals there was a shape on the butt plate that I could not see well, with magnification I see it is dogs taking down a big tusker with one guy pulling one dog off and another hind legging the hog. Me, I would rather shoot a hog than wrestle it, but our ancestors were a tough bunch.

Offline HSmithTX

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Re: Good HD pictures of Jaeger castings
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2023, 11:19:51 PM »
WOW, thanks for the pictures William, fantastic rifles and the pics are excellent. 

Jim, superb rifle, stunning really. 

Offline Rt5403

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Re: Good HD pictures of Jaeger castings
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2023, 01:21:22 AM »
As new as I am to this, I don't see how anyone cleans up all those little details.

Offline Rolf

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Re: Good HD pictures of Jaeger castings
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2023, 06:09:54 PM »
As new as I am to this, I don't see how anyone cleans up all those little details.

I agree whole heartedly and hope an experienced builder do a tutorial. Have some castings I look at from time to time, chicken  out and put back in the drawer.

Best regards

Rolf

Offline PhDBrewer

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Re: Good HD pictures of Jaeger castings
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2023, 12:55:03 AM »
Ron posted this awhile back for cleaning up castings. He also gave an excellent demonstration at the Oregon Gun Makers Faire and in his seminars.

CUTTING CAST ENGRAVING
Ron Scott 2022

Even the best quality casting with decoration will benefit from some amount of refreshing. Castings created from original parts often suffer from some amount of wear and hence, lost detail. Additional detail is lost in the process of creating a mold, shooting a wax; and investment casting. This is true, whether the cast object is high, mid or low relief or strictly engraved. I will attempt to share the process I have adopted in refreshing decorative details. How much recut you do is dependent on how much detail is fuzzy and the amount of time you budget into the project. A surprising improvement can be made by simply recutting the major outlines of figures and borders. Better results occur when all details (shading) are added. The most dramatic improvement includes the retexturing of relieved backgrounds in addition to the aforementioned recuts. I will list my process in order of work.


Straighten casting and remove casting sprues.


File and polish any areas that are smooth, without engraving.


Pickle part in white vinegar or similar acid to remove casting oxide (2-4 hours).


Scrub with baking soda and toothbrush.


Lightly highlight the surface with a polishing emery board (approximately 800 or finer grit).  This creates a better read of the engraving.


The visibility of faint lines will be enhanced by using a raking or low angle light.


You may find that some engraving was cut using a narrow  angle graver. Many of the ca. 1740s Jaegers appear to have been decorated with gravers of approximately 80 degree angles. I think it is important to retain the character, depth, and width of the original cuts, hence the reason I have gravers in 123,116, 96, 80 and 70 degree face angles. You will eventually find a need for a variety of flat gravers to increase or smooth relieved backgrounds.


I choose to cut the borders and primary figure outline first and proceed to the shading details. Since the cast surface has irregularities, such as pits, bumps, oxide, and even casting investment, you will notice a tendency for the graver to bog down or surge. To deal with this phenomenon, I make a light cut first to get a channel and a second cut to re-establish the width and depth of the cut. Shading cuts are often accomplished with a singe pass.

If one of your cuts has created a sharp edge in a figure with round contours, you will need to blend it to match. A ceramic stone retains its form well enough to control the shape of an edge and an extra soft 600 grit oil stone will reshape itself to polish the desired contour. Congress tool is a good source of these.


Relieved backgrounds are most often textured to give a further appearance of depth to the raised elements. While there are other textural styles, I will describe the most common to 18th century Jaegers. This is a stippled or beaded background, accomplished with punch, that features a cup on the point. The stippled  background  has a surface of half rounds across it. Stipplers in various diameters are available from most engraving equipment suppliers. They are inexpensive and break occasionally, so get several. I would suggest a bit of experimentation with stippling. The needed force of the hammer blow to the punch will vary with the type of metal you are working and if the casting has been annealed. Try to make the pattern of the beads fairly uniform; avoiding overlapping. I set my beads along the corners of a background,  around the edges, and then fill the center.


When all the recut and background work are finished, you will likely want to put a bit of gloss to the upper portions. This will enhance the overall illusion of depth. A jeweler’s polishing cloth or a cloth with polishing paste lightly buffed on the surface should suffice. If a more dramatic effect is desired, consider oxidizing the entire object with an antiquing solution or similar material to darken the entire surface. Then buff with the aforementioned cloth.


If  the casting is very fuzzy or has deep flaws, you might want to take a photo or a rubbing to record the details before proceeding to the process. This will give frame of reference in case of erasure during the clean up.


I think that you will find a better understanding of the style and tools of 18th century metal sculpting and engraving during the process of recutting a cast object.


I cannot over-stress the value of good lighting. My engraving bench has both direct overhead LED and low angle fiber optic lights. In addition, I can apply a UV filter to control glare.


Magnifying the object in some fashion is pretty much a necessity. I use a microscope designed for engraving. Dental loupes in magnification of 5X or greater would be a good choice.


I hope this brief description is of some assistance in getting started. The demonstration and discussion should help in the overall understanding of the process.

Ron Scott

Hope that this helps. Maybe it can be added to the tutorial section.

William