Author Topic: orange flakes  (Read 1579 times)

Offline bulljg

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orange flakes
« on: August 25, 2023, 02:23:27 AM »
What are the orange flakes sometimes caused by? Not always there but only "Sometimes" ?

Offline Flint62Smoothie

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Re: orange flakes
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2023, 02:25:37 AM »
It is a byproduct of black powdah combustion, but it depends on the humidity. I am here in the Northeast and when I see them they are ‘red flakes’.
All of my muzzleloaders will shoot into one ragged hole ALL DAY LONG ... it's just the 2nd or 3rd & other shots that tend to open up my groups ... !

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: orange flakes
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2023, 07:55:06 PM »
Here in CA I get red flakes also. ;D
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Online Bob Roller

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Re: orange flakes
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2023, 09:16:30 PM »
I live in the Ohio River Valley and I remember seeing red residue shaped like a tiny ball.The powder was DuPont 3fg,No flakes that I recall.
This was with a muzzle loader and never with the heavy bullet breech loaders.
Bob Roller

Offline MuskratMike

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Re: orange flakes
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2023, 09:42:02 PM »
If my old memory serves me. When building loads for the heavy plains rifles they had a saying: "make 'em bleed" meaning keep adding powder until you see red drops at the end of the barrel. Probably just another myth, but maybe some truth to it?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2023, 11:51:59 PM by MuskratMike »
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Offline Scota4570

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Re: orange flakes
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2023, 09:46:19 PM »
What are the orange flakes sometimes caused by? Not always there but only "Sometimes" ?

Sulfur. 

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: orange flakes
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2023, 08:22:49 AM »
When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then red beads will appear ---  ;D ;D ;D
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline bluenoser

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Re: orange flakes
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2023, 03:09:16 PM »
It is called barrel blood in our neck of the woods and, rightly or not, is considered an indication of a good charge.

Online Daryl

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Re: orange flakes
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2023, 07:09:04 PM »
It is called barrel blood in our neck of the woods and, rightly or not, is considered an indication of a good charge.

 A byproduct of combustion under certain atmospheric conditions is all. Meaningless as to load etc  however Ido see "this" fairly often with small red balls adhering to the barrel walls at the muzzle,  no flakes.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2023, 07:20:43 PM by Daryl »
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Offline bluenoser

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Re: orange flakes
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2023, 08:09:17 PM »
Agreed with regard to indication of a good charge.  Others believe otherwise.

Offline Bigmon

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Re: orange flakes
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2023, 05:43:35 AM »
For what it's worth, I remember being told that it was some sort of a chemical tracking method aded to the powder by order of the ATF??  Have no idea how it would work, or if at all true??

Offline Mike_StL

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Re: orange flakes
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2023, 05:53:51 AM »
As Daryl stated this a byproduct of the combustion of black powder under favorable atmospheric conditions.  The red balls are sulfur.  I have had the same loads produce the red balls one day and not on another day.  They seem to appear when the humidity is high.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: orange flakes
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2023, 02:06:06 PM »
Next time one sees this at the muzzle, vary the charge significantly. It will still be there. These sulfur beads come and go, as said, with weather conditions.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Dutch

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Re: orange flakes
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2023, 03:47:43 PM »
Agreed with regard to indication of a good charge.  Others believe otherwise.
I asked the same question 40yrs ago and my mentor said it was a sign that you have a good powder burn, nothing wasted.  Don’t pay much attention to it now but thanks for bringing back good memories!

Offline Scota4570

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Re: orange flakes
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2023, 07:02:07 PM »
For what it's worth, I remember being told that it was some sort of a chemical tracking method aded to the powder by order of the ATF??  Have no idea how it would work, or if at all true??

You are referring to "tagants".  ca. 1990s  The idea was to include multilayer, multi-color, chips to the powder.  They were proposed to be like multilayer paint chips.  The color variations could be arranged in orders to identify batches.  The powder used in cartridges would leave trace evidence at a crime scene.  The idea as cooked up by people who did not understand crime scene investigation or science.   IT would have given no actionable data to investigators.  Information about batches or ammo or reloading powder is not specific enough to be helpful.  The practicality of implementation  was not fully considered.   People like me were consulted.  The idea was so bad that even politicians could not continue to back it.  It was abandoned, thank goodness. 

Offline Dphariss

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Re: orange flakes
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2023, 04:50:17 PM »
What are the orange flakes sometimes caused by? Not always there but only "Sometimes" ?
Normally its little red beads. If I dug deep enough I could find  Bill Knights explanation of this. But its really not something that can be fixed or particularly worried about. Charge weight, caliber, weather, powder brand. ?   Flakes? Of any color… Some powders in some guns/calibers at some charge levels cause flakes. They can be a huge PITA and cause misfires etc with some breech designs, even a plain breech. So some either pick the vent or put a pick in it when loading. I use Swiss for this reason. My Nock Breech design 16 bore will misfire in 2-3 shots with Schuetzen at the same charge and granulation size. Never tried anything else. Then priming must be worked through the vent to get the fire lit. Swiss never does this.
If you find the right patch combination you “might” be able to shoot a ball cast from lead free solder but it would likely need to be a little undersized compared to pure lead. Barrels with wide shallower (.008”) or so and of course the naroow lands will work best with hard RBs. Might need a over powder patch and likely linen patching. But this alloy is pretty pricey. Pure tin might work as well and light be softer than the solder which is often alloyed with silver and copper.  Tin can be bought from those who supply bullet metal to brass suppository gun shooters/bullet casters.  Try Rotometals dot com. Its worth a try. I would use on of the graphite spray mould coatings. Dunno how “sticky” this stuff would be.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine