Author Topic: I'd like a smooth silky rust blue on a pistolbarrel. Recommendations?  (Read 6784 times)

Offline Rolf

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I'm going do silver weddingbands on the pistol I'm working on and would like a dark, smooth, silky rust blue on the barrel to contrast the silver. Which rust blue solution would you recommend?

I plan to polish the barrel to 600 grit. Degrease it thoroughly, card with a pair of old jeans and boil in distilled water. Any other tips/suggestions?

I had thought of using Laurel mountains barrel brown, but so far I have found only two people who have tried bluing with it and none of them would recommend it.

Best regards
Rolf
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 10:12:03 PM by Rolfkt »

keweenaw

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Re: I'd like a smooth silky rust blue on a pistolbarrel. Recommendations?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2009, 01:07:53 AM »
Rolf,

For a smooth silky rust blue I prefer to use Pilkington's classic rust blue from Brownell's.  It works every time on just about any steel alloy.  How much texture you get will depend on the initial polish - worn 400 grit wet and dry is really all one needs, 600 would be ok.  - and how aggressively you rust it which will depend on temperature, humidity and time. 

If you want a shinier blue-black, then Mark Lee's Express blue is the way to go.  I can tell the difference between barrels finished with these two methods at a glance.  My results with the Express blue vary from super to terrible.  I restored a Rigby rifle for a customer.  The action was one alloy, the barrel another, the rear sight base a third and the barrel band a fourth alloy.  Plus the scope and trigger guard were something else.  All polished identically, degreased identically and done at the same time.  The scope and trigger guard came out a perfect bright, blue black.  The action had a yellow cast the first attempt and all the alloys had a different color.   Took three attempts to get an acceptable finish on the barrel and action.  On most modern barrel steels 12L14 or the stuff Ed Rayl uses, you won't have that much trouble. 

Carding with a old pair of jeans will not be aggressive enough for either of these products.  Degreased 4/0 steel wool will be much better.  You need to get all the surplus oxide off the surface between coats to get an even finish.

If you want to make your own formula, Oscar Gaddy's from the Double Gun Journal is as good as any.  I would dilute the base product by 50% and use it like Pilkington's with at least a 3 hour rust between coats at a warm and humid temperature followed by boiling and carding.

If I get a chance I'll photograph two barrels side by side tonight, one done with Pilkington's and one with Mark Lee's and post the photo so you can see the difference.

Tom

Offline sydney

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Re: I'd like a smooth silky rust blue on a pistolbarrel. Recommendations?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2009, 02:37:44 AM »
Hi--I have used LMF for years with good results
      It is a aggressive solution but does work well
      You can dilute with water and shorten the rusting time
      I use a box to rust in so i shorten the time and and use more cycles
      I card with a soft wire wheel and card until i just have color in the metal
       and watch the corners trying not to go too far
       If you don t card completely you will have a more matted finish
       The finish you get depends on how the solution is used
         Hope this helps  Sydney

Offline Dave B

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Re: I'd like a smooth silky rust blue on a pistolbarrel. Recommendations?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2009, 04:49:29 AM »
Rolft,
I recommend that when you do this have several days to attend to the business. You need to monitor the progress of the rusting like a hawk. It can get out of hand in a hurry depending on your conditions. I do all my rust browning in a damp box to control the heat and humidity up to a point. Even so I still find that the monitoring is critical to stay ahead of the bloom on the metal. If you want a fine finish you must be consistent with your wire brushing. I have a couple of my wheels from Brownell's and they have improved my finishes dramatically with the fine stainless wire. If you leave your parts too long once the bloom gets going it will make the pitting too deep and you end up having to start over to get back to that really fine finish. With all the conditions right I was able to take the whole process from start to finish in a single day. This was during the summer by the way. I was using rain gutter over a pair of camp stoves to boil the barrel after each carding. It was one of the best rust bluing jobs I ever did.
Dave Blaisdell

Offline Rolf

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Re: I'd like a smooth silky rust blue on a pistolbarrel. Recommendations?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2009, 11:38:28 AM »
Thank you for your input. I have hit a snag. No one sells rust bluing/browning solutions in Norway. Neither Brownell or TOTW will ship these solutions abroad. Making my own solution is a tempting alternative. I have access to a chemistry lab at Oslo university.

Snyder, I googled Oscar Caddy's formula and have some questions.

 conc. HNO3........................ 3.22ml
 C2H5OH............................. 3.25ml  Is this 96% ethanol?
 Hg2Cl2...............................6.25gms ? Is gms = gr = grams?
 Fe2Cl3...............................5.0ml? This a salt. Shouldn't it be measured by weight?
 H2O to make 125ml

Does anyone else have any favorite rust bluing recipes? One without mercury would be great.

Best regards

Rolfkt

Offline Dphariss

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Re: I'd like a smooth silky rust blue on a pistolbarrel. Recommendations?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2009, 05:06:48 PM »
Thank you for your input. I have hit a snag. No one sells rust bluing/browning solutions in Norway. Neither Brownell or TOTW will ship these solutions abroad. Making my own solution is a tempting alternative. I have access to a chemistry lab at Oslo university.

Snyder, I googled Oscar Caddy's formula and have some questions.

 conc. HNO3........................ 3.22ml
 C2H5OH............................. 3.25ml  Is this 96% ethanol?
 Hg2Cl2...............................6.25gms ? Is gms = gr = grams?
 Fe2Cl3...............................5.0ml? This a salt. Shouldn't it be measured by weight?
 H2O to make 125ml

Does anyone else have any favorite rust bluing recipes? One without mercury would be great.

Best regards

Rolfkt


You need a copy onf Angiers book.
Firearm Blueing and Browning
 R. H. Angier

Simple weak acid solutions will work just fine. I make mine much like I make AF stain but add some hydrochloric. But I stop before the acid is depleted too far.
If too strong it will tend to strip the previous layer of rust. But the more somewhat more acidic mixes can be used to "fume rust" where jsut the fumes from the acid rust the part. This is often a finer rust than the wiped on variety.
If you want a fine finish polish to 320 grit, 600 may not rust as evenly.
Boil and card as soon as thereis a nice layer of rust. Letting it rust too long can make a rougher surface.
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

keweenaw

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Re: I'd like a smooth silky rust blue on a pistolbarrel. Recommendations?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2009, 05:19:55 PM »
Ethanol, grams and 40% FeCl solution that one gets for electronic circuit board etching.  You can figure out how much solid to add  if that is more readily available.  

The mercuric chloride is nasty stuff.  I've used several home brews on this, but all with mercury and have not seen any formulas available that work well without it which is why I buy Pilkington's or Mark Lee's commercial products, neither of which have mercury.  

When I'm using a mercury containing rusting agent, I much prefer to card with steel wool rather than the wire wheel that I'm now using with other products.  Figure I get less of the stuff floating around in the air where I can breath it in. Actually there will be almost no mercury in or on the metal at carding as the stuff is so highly soluble that almost all of it will be removed from the metal when you boil before carding. Wear good plastic gloves when putting on the product and you really don't need to worry too much.

I'll post another recipe I've used with good success tomorrow, don't have it available right now.

Tom

Offline Dave B

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Re: I'd like a smooth silky rust blue on a pistolbarrel. Recommendations?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2009, 05:40:10 PM »
Rolfkt,
Dphariss is right on, the Angier book has loads of formulas for browning, many with out the mercury.
 Pg. 68 has one called a Black Brown which is composed of:

Copper sulphate           1.0 g
Ammonium chloride       4.0g
Fuming Nitric acid          4.0g
Alcohol  90*(temp)        4.0g
Water t.s.  to make      100 ccm

"Comparative trial gave a very good but fairly brown black, which was improved by a fourth pass. Fairly rapid with a slight tendency to over rust."
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 05:44:25 PM by Dave B »
Dave Blaisdell

Offline frogwalking

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Re: I'd like a smooth silky rust blue on a pistolbarrel. Recommendations?
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2009, 05:40:35 AM »
I have used American Classic Rust Blue I bought from Dixie several years ago.  I think it may be the same one they sell as the Pinkerton brand now.  It works very well if you follow the instructions.  I have a sheet iron tank to boil the browned barrel across two eyes of the kitchen stove and it makes a nice black.  It takes 4 or 5 passes of rusting, carding, boiling to get a really good satin job.  I card it with a fine bristle stainless steel hand carding brush I got from Brownells. 
Quality, schedule, price; Pick any two.

Offline Rolf

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Re: I'd like a smooth silky rust blue on a pistolbarrel. Recommendations?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2009, 10:34:38 PM »
I found recipe called Neidner cold rust blue that was highly recommended on www.gunsandammomag.com by a Larry Lyons.
It's simple to make.

cons. Nitric acid ...........2.5 ounces
Iron filings....................1.0 ounce
cons.hydrochloric acid .2.0 ounces
Distilled water ............30.0ounces.

I gather the water and acid is measured in fluid ounces and the iron by weight.
Has anyone tried this?

Best regards

Rolfkt