Barrel Length, Off Hand.

[Spalding]

Ok fellas,
If you were going to build a rifle strictly for off hand target shooting use, 25-100 yards, what barrel length and caliber would you be looking at?
Definitely swamped, but it seems the older I get, those 42-44” barrels seem awfully long and wobbly hanging out there for me.
I’ve got some unmentionables with shorter barrels I can shoot very well offhand, but I seem to have trouble with my long flintlocks. I can shoot a nice group off the bench with them, so it’s definitely me and not the rifles. Maybe need more practice.
Anyways, I’ve been thinking a 45 cal. about 38” might be the ticket, still long enough to look good but noticeably shorter offhand wise.

All opinions welcomed,
Thanks, Bob

[ed lundquist]

 Bob, my 38" are my favorite hunting rifles, 50 and 54, light and quick for deer and they shoot well for me offhand without the extra length and weight. I prefer the larger calibers to take some weight away. Not as strong as I once was. I have a 45 with a 44" barrel that usually stays home although it is great from a stand or bench. That's what works for me.

[smylee grouch]

Having spent a fair amount of time as a range officer I have seen many shooters go to a little shorter, 32-36 inch barrels with a straight taper in half stock guns.

[Spalding]

Having spent a fair amount of time as a range officer I have seen many shooters go to a little shorter, 32-36 inch barrels with a straight taper in half stock guns.

A lot of the guys I shoot with have shorter barrel guns in that range, 50-58 cal.
They shoot offhand very well.

Bob

[Dphariss]

Technically longer is better.
Dan

[Dphariss]

Caliber? 50.

[mikeo]

My favorite offhand rifle is a .40 42” 13/16” swamped barrel

[Daryl]

My longtime favourite offhand rifle is my .69 with straight octagonal 1 1/8" @ 31" length & simple trigger.  The reason it shoots best for me standing, is it is a Caplock
having much faster ignition than ANY flintlock.
I can hold the .50 Beck with 44" swamped bl. slightly better than the short gun, but the slower ignition lets me down. It feels better, but the ignition lets me down, even
when I don't flinch from the "puff" in front of my face.
I wholly agree with Dan, though. The longer barrel is steadier to hold - unless the gun is too heavy for you.
My best standing score was a 99/100 on the standard 100yard target shot at 100yards.  We were having an argument on rifle weight for best score offhand/standing.
The rifle was shot on a dare at the Barnet Rifle Club in Burnaby, B.C. in 1974 or 5. Seems to me the 10 ring was 1 1/4" in diameter. I dropped one out low, as the gun sagged. My timing was off
for that shot. I was stronger in those days than I am now.
It was a 22 pound Bench Rest rifle with 20X scope chambered for the Nato Round.
I guess the take from this, is that the heaviest gun you can shoot well, is the best. With open sights, the longer the sight radius, the greater the potential for the most accurate shooting.
With a shorter rifle, you can increase the felt weight of the barrel (better holding) by adopting the Olympic Style of Standing Shooting.

[alacran]

I like shooting offhand, always have. My suggestion is the same as I would give you if you were asking how, you would build the best formula 1 race car.
See what the best racers are building. So look at what the best offhand shooters are shooting. Short heavy rifles in small calibers with fine adjustable sights.
Not much different than offhand rifles in the 19th Century.

[Spalding]

I’m sure a lot of my offhand issues lie in follow through with my flintlocks, plus probably a slight flinch. My offhand shots tend to wander right.
Guess I’m thinking a shorter, possibly heavier barrel would reduce follow through time slightly and help with a steadier hold. Don’t recall seeing many skinny long barreled flinters on the offhand line at Friendship.
Like I said earlier, most of the fellows I shoot with use those imported halfstock cap guns with short barrels, around 30” or so. Larger, at least .50 cal. Some days I can almost keep up with them, other days I can’t. I’m currently breaking in a 42” swamped .40 cal rifle. She’ll shoot good, based on my bench results, but I’d like to do better offhand. Hence I was thinking about building a rifle for strictly competitive offhand use, and not trying to follow any particular build school.
And it has to be flintlock.

Thanks for the comments,
Bob

Bob

[smylee grouch]

A lot of varied responses as it should be because every one is an individual. Longer barrels give you a longer sight radius w

[smylee grouch]

A shorter barrel has less ( barrel time ) so when your shot breaks if your on the mark your ball  will exit sooner  and not be affected as much by poor follow through.

[Daryl]

We had a fee-driven target on our trail some years back. It was a chicken egg at about 60 or 70 yards or so. Cost was $5.00 per shot,
money going to the club. The egg was suspended, taped to string between 2 trees.
Taylor, using his long, skinny "B" weight .40 Jacob Kuntz rifle, won it virtually every time.
That's him, a bunch of years ago, with the rifle at Dixon's gun Maker's Fair. 2009 sticks in my mind.


I guess the "answer" to the question is to find what you shoot standing/offhand best with.

[Mike Brooks]

I'm currently shooting a 15lb gun with a 28 inch barrel off hand rather well.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Whatever Arnold. 

[hanshi]

Strictly for targets, hmmm...  Well I'll tell what I did best with years back when I was strong and could see the sights.  I had this Virginia rifle, flint lock, 42" straight barrel in .50 caliber.  It weighed 9 lbs to maybe 9.5 lbs but I could handle it then.  I shot offhand very well with that fine rifle; the muzzle heavy barrel was near rock steady on target.  It moved slooowly with tiny figure eights and put those balls right where I was aiming.

If I needed - and could handle it - that's the rifle I'd want for targets.  All my others are 38" with one .45 going 36".

[satwel]

The rifle with which I have shot my highest offhand match scores at 25 to 100 yard distances has a 42" .50 caliber, B weight Colerain barrel with radius groove rifling.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

My best offhand rifle, ie:  the one that I shoot best offhand out to 200 meters, is a Chambers Virginia rifle with a swamped D weight .50 calibre barrel at 42" length.  The rifle weighs 10 pounds, but is not muzzle heavy.

[Darkhorse]

Many years ago when I switched to flintlocks I had to deal with the same problems. The way I see it your problem is that slight flinch you mentioned. No rifle will shoot good as long as that flinch is there.
The flinch can be overcame completely.
Fix that and then worry about the rifle.

[StevenV]

Bob if you research the "tools" the top offhand shooters are using at Friendship, you will find .40 cal. 36 -38", straight barrel, "heavy" 1" to 1 1/8", dbl. set triggers, null - B in the pan and swiss in the barrel. There is a reason for this. Straight barrel offers better harmonics ( actually wrought iron has the best harmonics) , good luck finding and paying for one. The reason for the shortness, ball gets out of the barrel quicker, set trigger offers better control. .40 cal. beats you up less then bigger calibers, takes less powder/ lead. You don't need a larger caliber to put a hole in paper.        StevenV

[ronaldrothb49]

My favorite of all the rifles I have built for competition. A full stock flint 36" x 13/16" barrel .45 caliber. That little rifle would shoot

[Spalding]

Thanks everyone,
StevenV, that’s more along the lines of what I was envisioning.

Bob

[Daryl]

Harry Pope, Schutzen shooter & barrel maker from the late 1800's, into the 1900's once stated that a man's offhand rifle should weigh 16 pounds and a woman's a mere 12 pounds.
The rifles used in those competitions had hooked butt plates and palm rests as well.

[Darkhorse]

Don't take this wrong as I'm just trying to help based on my own experience.
Follow your own counsel as to your rifle, maybe it will work for you. But I think your only putting a band aid on a  deep cut.
The slightest flinch will ruin those offhand groups and scores.
I was a top shooter with a caplock, my target was anything 50 to 100 yards, I won a lot of matches. So when I switched to a flintlock I expected those same tight groups. On the bench I was not dissappointed, after sighting in I had 5 shots into 1 ragged hole, perfect.
Then I started shooting offhand. All my shots went into a large group low and left (I am Lefthanded). So back to the bench, then offhand. Same results.
Keep in mind I had no mentor.
My problem was a slight flinch. And after I got it cured my shooting did a 180 right off. Now I can shoot offhand any rifle, any barrel length, LH or RH, and get good competitive groups.
I've read and heard a lot of old wives tales concerning breaking that flinch. Most don't really work so don't get discouraged.
PM me if you need a little help.

[hanshi]

My favorite of all the rifles I have built for competition. A full stock flint 36" x 13/16" barrel .45 caliber. That little rifle would shoot

I don't believe in coincidences but my favorite rifle is a full stock flint 36" X 13/16" straight barrel .45 caliber.  At 7 lbs even it was my favorite deer rifle and took more of them than any other I've owned.  I no longer hunt but that little rifle was more accurate than I ever was.