1st Veg Tanned Project - Mini Ball Flask

[45dash100]

First time working with veg tanned leather, second ever leather project.  Made a hunting pouch years ago out of some moose leather, and have had leather tools sitting around doing nothing.  I like to keep lead from contaminating things, so a tiny flask to throw in said hunting pouch will be a bit better than the plastic sandwich baggies I've used in the past.

Because I'm not good at freehand drawing, and was going to use a computer to make my design anyway, I decided to 3D print a cutting and sewing guide.  I remember that counting stiches, and trying to make everything line up on my hunting pouch was a big pain.  This was just as fast to draw as a paper design, and I'm hoping a good test run for bigger projects.  Gonna need more hunting bags for my various guns.

The primary circle is 2.5 inches in diameter.  Scotch tape works good for holding the template in place.  I'm using some pretty lightweight leather - 3-4oz.  Seems ok for something this tiny, but I do wonder how well it'l hold it's shape after forming.



Just using a #11 hobby blade.  The strap circles are just an impression made with running a needle around the template.



Came out pretty good, but I need some more blades.  This is one of my last ones, and it's getting a bit dull.  Makes curves hard to do.



It might not look it it, but the thread holes are narrowly chamfered which guides the needle right to the center.  Been giving the needle a light rap with a hammer for each hole.  In the future, I may make shaped holes to fit the intended awl.  That'l let me skip a step.





Here's the holes after being punched out with the awl.



And here's the dying step.  I've never done this before.  Using Fiebings regular leather dye mixed by eye, and reduced by 50% with pure ethanol.  It's a blend of mostly moccasin brown, with a little bit of red.  I saw a bunch of stuff online about how this really dries out leather, but thought that might not be bad for a forming project.  If the leather was really soft, I wasn't sure if it'd hold it's shape after wet forming.

Tried to get the center lighter, though I ended up with some artifacts.  Apparently the edges of where you apply dye gets the darkest.  Was easy to apply with a little swab at least.



Here's the leather pieces after being stiched together.  Just using some waxed thread a bought a long time ago, and some 1mm diameter rounded nose needles from Tandy.  I cut out the holes with a gouge, which was a little tricky, as I didn't have one the perfect size.  I also should have done that step before dying, as the inside of the holes was very discolored.  Fixed it with a sharpie, figure black ink is better than shades of light red.



Soaked the stiched leather in a jar of warm water for 45 minutes.  Soaking in the water really evened out the dye, which is awesome.  Got the effect I was looking for by accident.

I missed taking a picture of the first forming step.  I filled the bag with airsoft bb's.  However, it left a rather lumpy and pebbled texture, so I went out to the shop and blew compressed air into it.  Read somewhere that it's a good trick, and it worked very well.  It smoothed things out instantly, and a ton of the water foamed out from every surface of the leather.  Probably made drying a lot faster.  I was then able to smooth out any wrinkles and creases on the edges by hand so that everything stayed straight.   Left a 9/16" drill bit in the mouth and left it to dry overnight.



And here's the mostly finished flask.  Made a little maple plug on the drill press, which I'll probably stain with iron nitrate then finish with tung oil.  Need to make some sort of collet system for the press so I can hold small pieces of wood or antler.  Will be a lot easier to make useful parts that way.  The bag holds 25-26 .440 size round balls.  Perfect for the Kibler SMR I'm building.





Undecided on what to do about treating the leather.  I'm worried that oiling it will make it lose it's shape, but don't know if it'l start falling apart after being really dried out by the dye treatment.  I see that some people immerse in melted beeswax.  I probably have enough wax on hand to do that, just need to find a pot to keep as a permanent reservoir. 

[45dash100]

So I tried the beeswax submersion, and it really turned things dark.  I was expecting it to be a bit darker, but not quite this much.

Kinda neat though, turned the leather very hard, like plastic.  That does have some drawbacks though, it now rattles if it's not full.  Also, where both 45 and 54 cal balls poured out pretty well before, they now have a tendency to jam up before getting to the neck.  This is much worse with the 54 cal stuff.  The 45 is still usable for the range.  Might not be the best for hunting.





Going to be making more of these and experimenting a bit.  Maybe I can just paint the outside with wax and solve the rattling problem.  May also leave some untreated, and then treat others with some neatsfoot oil, or a leather conditioner. 

May also try different shapes.  I think that a sharper transition to the neck, rather than a gradual cone may stop the traffic jam issues.

[Al22300]

Nice work!

[TDM]

I think you did a good job, nice stitching, and I like the dark color.

[Copper Dave]

Nice job! When I make these type of containers, after soaking in hot water I pack them with sand to form the cavity. Let it dry with the sand in it then when they are dry, pour the sand out and rattle a couple of small balls inside to get out the residual sand. I usually just use a brush to “paint” on melted wax on the outside. Then use a paint heat gun or hairdryer to get the wax melted into the leather.

[45dash100]

Thanks guys!

The template really makes the stitching easy.  Much nicer when you've planned out in advance where are the holes need to be to look the best.

I thought about sand, figured it would be too hard to get all of it out, and I don't want to mix it with my ammo.  Maybe it's not that bad.  I't certainly be more uniform than big plastic bb's.  Maybe I should get some fine shot.

Painting just the outside then melting it in with a hair dryer is a good idea.  I'll give it a shot after some eyedroppers I ordered get here.  I want to be able to weigh out die and do some tests with wax to see how dark things get.  The Fiebings bottles are impossible to pour with without spilling, hence the droppers.

I've made one more of the round flasks, and have several more pieces of leather cut out for when the droppers come in.  I also just finished up an oval version.  Was hoping the change of angle would make balls feed easier.  Though it seems to work about the same, occasionally a ball will jam a bit, but a slight shake makes it come out.



The oval shape (2"x3.5") is a bit less efficient on size to carrying capacity.  It only holds 22 .440 balls.  Looks cool though.

Working on 3D printing a 3 jaw chuck I can stick onto the drill press.  Will hopefully give me an easy way to hold wood or other materials for shaping into nicer looking plugs.

[ScottH]

looks very nice. If you want to try something besides beeswax or neats foot oil, try a leather dressing like Skidmores Leather Dressing, or one from White's Boots based in Spokane, WA.

https://skidmores.com/product/leather-cream/

https://shop.whitesboots.com/conditioning/whites-heavy-duty-leather-preservative-8-oz./

[45dash100]

looks very nice. If you want to try something besides beeswax or neats foot oil, try a leather dressing like Skidmores Leather Dressing, or one from White's Boots based in Spokane, WA.

https://skidmores.com/product/leather-cream/

https://shop.whitesboots.com/conditioning/whites-heavy-duty-leather-preservative-8-oz./

I just tried a can of Saphir Renovateur, saw it recommended in a youtube video.  It's probably similar to those two products.  It's a cream, and I think the primary ingredient is mink oil, though it has a small amount of beeswax also.

After letting this stuff dry, and giving it a light polish with some cloth, it ends up looking pretty darned good.  Was a little worried it would soften things too much, but it seems to be holding it's shape just fine.  Might want to give those other creams a try though, this stuff is pretty smelly. 




Got a big batch of parts for the chuck off the printer.  Just need to finish up the jaws, and find appropriate hardware to assemble.  I have some scrap dowel rods in various hardwood varieties coming.  Might be cool to find horn or antler to turn also.

[Tim Crosby]

 Nice looking, very clean, I would think 22 balls would cover most events. I may have missed something; what is this for/from/part of?

  Thanks, Tim

 

[45dash100]

Nice looking, very clean, I would think 22 balls would cover most events. I may have missed something; what is this for/from/part of?

  Thanks, Tim

Yeah 22 is plenty.  Don't miss things that often, so packing home 22 dead critters is probably overkill.   

The gears are the internals for a 3 Jaw chuck like you'd see on a metal lathe.  There will be a bolt running through it that I can clamp in a hand drill, or drill press.  Will make for a cheap rudimentary lathe so I can turn some nice stoppers for these flasks.  I'll probably use rasps, files, and sandpaper to shape the wood as spins.  Once I finish printing the jaws, it'l make a lot more sense to look at.

[45dash100]

Still need to find a few more bolts, but I think this is going to work.  It cranks down tight, and stays locked. 



The drill press can spin pretty slow, but I think I'll probably start out with small pieces of wood in the jaws first.  Just in case.

[45dash100]

So, the printed chuck was not successful.  At least not with my drill press, too much vibration in the whole system and things come loose.  Might have worked if I rigged up something to hold the wood on the other end. 

Spent the week looking at various options.  Metal 3 jaw chucks can be had cheaply, but I'm not a fan of buying Chinese if I can help it.  Also after some more reading, it seems that drill press chucks don't handle side loads well, so another option would be better.


Thought I might see if craigslist had anything I could cobble together to make a simple lathe, and found a really good deal yesterday.

$100 for the lathe, table, and a bunch of tools.  It's quite old, very basic, and has seen some use, but for $100, wasn't worth passing up.

I squirted some oil into the moving bits, and cleaned up a bit of the surface rust.   Should probably get the rest of it off, but I wanted to see if things would work.






I've got a good handful of some really ugly first attempts.  A big part of that was no skill, but I also was running things too slow at first, and the tools were really dull.  After putting fresh edges on things, and spinning stuff faster, I was able to get some pretty good results in by the time it got dark.




Wood types in order: cherry with a coat of tung oil, Plain Cherry, Plain Maple.

[Wandering longhunter]

If I may offer a few suggestions. First I would use your pattern to mark the position of the stitches only. Then I would use some glue on both pieces of leather outside of the stitch marks and use that to hold the leather together while stitching. Then use a diamond shaped awl to pierce the leather for the stitches. Stitch with waxed linen thread, the wax made up of beeswax and pitch. This does a couple of things. One, the diamond awl pushes the leather fibers apart rather than punching a hole. When stitching with the waxed thread using a saddle stitch, the wax mixture will melt due to the heat from rubbing against the leather and the other thread, sealing the fibers on the inside of the stitch.

Lastly, I use a 50/50 mixture of unsalted olive oil and fish oil. I oil one coat on the inside or flesh side and two coats on the grain side. I follow that up with a lanolin heavy oil/grease as a topcoat to condition and seal the leather.

[P.W.Berkuta]

I very much like your ball flasks - they are neat. That's a great lathe & accessories for the price. It will serve you well just be careful of rotating wood. Good luck with your projects