Author Topic: Repair question on antique half stock  (Read 1937 times)

Offline Solomon

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Repair question on antique half stock
« on: October 09, 2023, 12:21:49 AM »
I have a crude half stock that I presume is maybe east TN (pewter nose cap, iron furniture, no markings), with a loose barrel-




I have never built one, and have never had one apart, as yet unexperienced in this arena. Any advice on proper repair would be much appreciated.




Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2023, 02:02:51 AM »
Looks like the front barrel pin is missing, it holds the stock up against the barrel.

You can see the barrel pins sticking out of the stock in this picture



The pins in the stock go through an underlug on the underside of the barrel. They should tap out easily with a small punch. This under lug hasn't been drilled for a pin yet.


« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 02:06:35 AM by Eric Krewson »

Offline Daryl

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2023, 03:40:48 AM »
Quite possibly, the pin if missing, or the lug and pin. Disassembly is the only way to find out. If you feel incapable, find someone locally to you with experience.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Solomon

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2023, 03:50:15 AM »
Thanks Eric. Feels like a silly question in hindsight, I guess.

Know where I can get pin stock? I assume you would just buy rods of it, get width via calipers, and cut to length, as needed?

Thanks also Daryl. Reasonably confident with hands, and meticulous natured, just no experience taking these apart. May try to tap a pin in, and see if it takes. If not, will try to find someone to walk me through the first one.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2023, 05:47:22 AM »
Take it all part first, for cleaning if not anything else. You need to take it apart to find the diameter needed for the hole in the barrel lug.
Measuring the hoe in the wood will likely not give you the correct diameter.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2023, 06:46:57 AM »
I have a very seriously falling apart Lehigh that has underlugs made from folded brass sheet metal. The folded sheet metal underlugs are to thin to handle the stress produced by wood shrinkage, a few hundred years of recoil, and the fact that the brass sheet had to be heated to soften it to bend it while making the lugs. Your gun could have the same problem. Good Luck.

Hungry Horse

Offline Solomon

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2023, 03:37:07 PM »
Gotcha. Appreciate the advice here, fellas.

Offline Longknife

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2023, 03:50:42 PM »
Finish nails work good for underlug pins.
Ed Hamberg

Offline Solomon

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2023, 04:09:25 PM »
Thanks, re finishing nails.

Couple more pics, guessing the original pin long gone, and someone has driven a nail in otherwise? Any ideas?






Offline Top Jaw

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2023, 05:32:06 PM »
If it was re-pinned at some point in its history, the lug has probably come loose against the bottom of the barrel, as Hungry Horse stated.  Obviously, tap pins out from small diam side to large side if there’s a difference, which there appears to be on this one.  Be careful when removing the barrel from the stock. Better to do it upside down and tap the comb lightly on a bench and try to drop the barrel straight down in your hands.  Resist the temptation to pry it up from the front.  Easy to chip wood out at the tang by doing it this way.  As stated, after it’s out, you can see what you’re dealing with.

Also, You may have to spread, glue and clamp that lock side front pin location since it has a crack present.  It may eventually grow the crack and weaken the holding spot there long term, otherwise.  Compressing a tapered piece of metal in the hole should open it up slightly when the barrels out so you can get glue down in the crack.  Might want to work an alcohol rag sideways down in that crack before gluing to clean up any oil residue and dirt. If pins are slightly mushroomed, lightly file and soften the leading edge before you reinsert to prevent tear out.  If holes are wallered out quite a bit, you might have to drill out the barrel lugs to the next size larger pin. Those are my thoughts. You can do it.  ✅👍
« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 09:29:36 PM by Top Jaw »

Offline bluenoser

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2023, 07:20:17 PM »
Assuming it does not have a hooked breech, remove the lock prior to trying to remove the barrel.  The lock bolt probably goes through the rear of the breech plug.

Offline Solomon

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2023, 07:23:18 PM »
Awesome- really appreciate all of the input and details, Top Jaw. Thanks also, bluenoser. I like this little half stock, and would like to repair and keep it, but it's admittedly a bit rough, not end of world if I end up learning some lessons with attempt. Like anything, I'm sure, hesitant at first, until some familiarity gained. Will try to get this thing torn apart when I get a few minutes, and will post what I find. Thanks all!!

Offline JTR

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2023, 10:16:33 PM »
Remember to save any wood bits, pieces, chunks that fall off while removing the barrel. It's much easier to reglue them than to make a new piece to fit.
Also, before you get started, remove the ramrod, and take a flashlight and shine it down the ramrod hole and the gap between forearm and barrel, to see what you can see.

Don't forget to post pictures of what you find!
John
John Robbins

Offline Solomon

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2023, 10:25:31 PM »
Will do, John - thanks for the additional advice!

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2023, 11:13:25 PM »
 John is right on with his advice. Pictures of the over all gun would be a great help to anyone who might have a gun similar to yours. Good luck.

Hungry Horse

Offline taterbug

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2023, 07:41:29 PM »
oh, and just for fun(?) when you take the ramrod out, slide it down the barrel to make sure the gun is not loaded.  Always a good thing to know. ;D

Slide the rod in until it stops, then note where the end of the barrel is on the ramrod.  pull rod out and lay it next to the barrel, lining up end of barrel with noted spot on ramrod, and see where the other end of the ramrod lines up near the drum.  if the end of rod is forward of the drum, there may be a charge in there...

Offline Solomon

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2023, 09:15:33 PM »
First thing I always do actually, with an antique in hand, but indeed and good call!

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2023, 07:42:31 AM »
The crack in the forearm on the lock side was probably caused by a pin that was too big. I would first try to drive the pin out from left to right, then ca glue that crack after the barrel is out.

Offline Solomon

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2023, 03:16:08 PM »
Thanks flinchrocket, and good call. Hoping to carve out some time this weekend, to sit down with this thing and see what we've got. Discretionary seems to be in minutes/week anymore!

Offline Mule Brain

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2023, 03:11:36 PM »
Could an under rib be missing as well
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Offline Solomon

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2023, 09:18:22 PM »
K, so I got the barrel removed from the little half stock, and there is no pin lug, attached or detached. There's a dovetail slot in the barrel, and there's a hole in the stock for a lug, but they're off center from one another. I tried to line them up and denote with red lines. Are pin lugs shaped at an angle, to fit? And, does anyone have a source for them? Thanks









Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2023, 02:41:36 AM »
 My evaluation of this gun is, it’s a restock of a full stock into a half stock after its fore stock was destroyed. The present for stock is broken off too short to make a presentable halfstock and the poured nose cap is ridiculously large to compensate for the short forearm. It would need an underrib added which with that nose cap would make the rifle very nose heavy. If I were going to add an underrib I would make it out of wood.

Hungry Horse

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2023, 12:36:10 PM »
Personally if I wanted to restore it I would return it to the full stock rifle that it obviously was. It would be much easier that trying to return it to a 3/8 stock that in my view would never look right.
Ddennis

I have a crude half stock that I presume is maybe east TN (pewter nose cap, iron furniture, no markings), with a loose barrel-




I have never built one, and have never had one apart, as yet unexperienced in this arena. Any advice on proper repair would be much appreciated.



"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Solomon

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2023, 01:57:28 PM »
Appreciate the comments and eval, fellas. I'm probably going to leave it as close to "found/last used" state as possible, as I'm guessing this is poor man's TN gun, and doesn't get much more Americana to me, crude as it is. Comfortable in the wood shop, and will look around at underribs, but also not overly concerned with balance, just want to get the piece stabilized.

Thanks again!

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Repair question on antique half stock
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2023, 09:57:43 PM »
Good candidate for a wooden under rib.