No two Hawken's are identical.

[Steeltrap]

My take on the Hawken love fest issue is rather simplified; I would bet that 90% of the folk reading this bought a TC or CVA hawken variant for their first B/P rifle. Myself and most of the folk here have moved on but still have that memory of killing our first B/P deer with our trusty TC and have fond memories of this style of rifle. I suspect that many of the guys lust after the same style but one that is closer to the real thing.

I still have two TC Hawkens in my gun safe, I can't seem to part with them even if I don't hunt with them except when I want a nostalgic trip to the past.

My favorite style now is my 38" barreled slender Issac Haines in .54, it makes even a TC feel like a tree trunk. No new Hawkens style rifles for me.

^^^^----Yeah, this----^^^^. I can't agree more. I also believe the reason for the overall popularity of "old flint\percussion" rifles and pistols can be traced to Thompson Center's (Franken)-Hawken. These were cheap, similar to old fashion long-rifles, and got a lot of "gun guys" interested in the history of the firearm.

I still have my T\C kit gun from the late 70's. I've since replaced the factory shallow grove (aka very inaccurate) barrel, got sick of looking at the original trigger guard and blacked up the brass, removed the factory-fake case hardening, etc. The rifle has excellent accuracy and is a great hunting rifle (Williams peep sight and all!!).....and takes my abuse while out in the woods. Yes....it's a Franken-rifle......but it's MY Franked-rifle!!

Just a few pics of some of the re-do, along with a pic of an apparent original Hawken:

[RAT]

Anyone have more info on the ETC Hawken?

Yep

Is it stamped J&S Hawken?

It is. In fact, it's double stamped. By that I mean it looks like the stamp bounced of the first strike and when it was struck again it was misaligned.


Walnut stock?

The museum record states it is mahogany. It could very well be. Everyone I've asked, that has seen it, thinks it's black walnut. The museum tech we worked with stated that a sample was never sent for testing and he didn't know were the mahogany notation originated.

Halfstock or full stock?

Half stock

Type or shape of breech? Snail or “conquistador helmet?”

"Conquistador helmet". It's identical to some photos I've seen of other guns. One was a pistol by William Chance that was made in England. The bolster is forge welded directly to the barrel. It does not have a patent (or more properly... false patent) breech. The breech plug is simply the screw portion of a conventional breech plug with a hook at the back to engage the standing portion of the tang. A bore scope confirmed that the face of the breech plug is flat and not cupped.




Shape of tang?

The full length of the tang from the front of the standing portion to the back tip of the tang is 3.028". It's a short (or mid-length) tang with one tang bolt entering through the tang and threading into the trigger plate in front of the front trigger.




Shape of cheekpiece?

It has the identical beaver tail cheekpiece to the Atchison rifle. The molding follows around the cheekpiece... over the comb... and terminates on the lock side.






Key escutcheons?

Silver or possibly German silver. It's interesting that none of the silver inlays are engraved except the cheekpiece inlay. But all the screw heads are engraved.


Shape of guard? Big round English shotgun guard scroll? Is the trigger bar extra long and guard screwed to it?

The trigger plate is a short conventional trigger plate. The double set triggers are single acting. The front trigger alone can not fire the rifle. The rear trigger must be set. The trigger guard is a separate part. It is not attached to the trigger plate like late period rifles. It is fastened directly to the stock with wood screws through the front and rear finials. The front portion from the front finial... through the bow... and around the scroll... is one piece. The rear finial is brass brazed to the top of the scroll.




Pictures?

The photos I posted are for personal study purposes only. Copyright applies. I'm not giving permission for them to be shared or published. Sorry.

Here is something else to consider about this rifle...

The barrel is 39" long
It is .50cal with 7 grooves.. NO we did not measure the twist. We had no way of doing so.

Barrel width measurements...

1.040" at the breech

1.014" at the rear barrel key

.984" at the front barrel key

.961 at the front of the entry pipe

.922 at the front of the middle ramrod pipe

.926 at the front of the front ramrod pipe

.933 at the muzzle

According to the museum record the rifle weighs 9lbs 9oz.

The typical late period... 1860's... post Sam Hawken retirement style rifle that we're used to seeing generally weighs around 11-12lbs.

[RAT]

I would also like to see a good JJ Henry new English pattern trade rifle in kit form. Rice makes a barrel profile for it that they say was copied from an original. It looks like a very heavy barrel... which we seem to forget was VERY common on original rifles being made everywhere in America.

Since Northstar West shut down several years ago, I would also like to see a more authentic NW trade gun offered in kit form.

I too would like to see an English rifle made... but we need to be honest here... is there really a big enough market for it? Outside of the few on this forum... probably not.

[rich pierce]

Thanks, Bob, for the data and pictures!

[smylee grouch]

I think an Hawken kit might out sell an English Sporting gun kit but I also think the English kit would sell itself once it had been on the market and people got the chance to compare. Even more so if it were a John or Joe Manton half stock flint rifle.

[Mike Brooks]

I think an Hawken kit might out sell an English Sporting gun kit but I also think the English kit would sell itself once it had been on the market and people got the chance to compare. Even more so if it were a John or Joe Manton half stock flint rifle.

Either a rifled barrel or a shotgun barrel or both could be offered. I'd be on board for that.

[Bsharp]

I think an Hawken kit might out sell an English Sporting gun kit but I also think the English kit would sell itself once it had been on the market and people got the chance to compare. Even more so if it were a John or Joe Manton half stock flint rifle.

Either a rifled barrel or a shotgun barrel or both could be offered. I'd be on board for that.

I would like to see that also.

[smylee grouch]

That two barrel idea would really shine especially  if it came in a fitted case. 

[smylee grouch]

A 16 bore for both barrels. 

[Daryl]

I could "see" a 16 bore for smooth, but 16 bore in a Hawken - likely too much recoil for the narrow butt plate.
A full 1 ounce ball - could be nasty if making it shoot well.

[smylee grouch]

What I was thinking of was a Manton flint in a rifle and with a same outer contour barrel in 20 or 16 bore. Oct\round.