Postal Match and Offhand Shooting

[Marcruger]

I saw the comment below, and thought I would start a new topic. 

"This may be a little off topic, but in reference to your statement about pulling the trigger when lined up... Do you typically try to time your trigger pull with the POA float so the trigger pull would happen just before your sight floats back into the black?"

35 years ago I spent a Saturday with three gentlemen on the Marine Corps Pistol Team.  They gave great tips and coaching on offhand (one handed) shooting of targets with a pistol or revolver.  There is really no difference in shooting longrifles offhand or one-handed offhand handgun shooting.  The basics are the same. 

They gave several pointers I will share with y'all. 

1 - When you can see the corners of the front sight clearly, then you are focusing hard enough on the front sight.  (For me, that means a baggie of reading glasses for any distance to the front sight.  Yes, target will be fuzzy, as it should be).  I cannot shoot squirrels anymore with open sights as they blend in with the trees. 

2 - Accept the wobble.  Everyone wobbles, often in a figure eight pattern.  If you try to time it, and snatch the trigger as the sight goes by, you'll miss. Accept that on a given day your wobble is "X" size, and that is how big your groups will be.  Most of the time the front sight is somewhere in the middle of the wobble zone, so your actual groups will most likely be smaller than the wobble. 

3 - Ignore the shakes - On certain days you'll have the shakes (as opposed to wobble, or you may have both).  It could be coffee, lack of sleep, the phase of the moon.  Who knows.  The shakes do not show up on target.  One of the Marines said he won a hugely important match and his hand was shaking like a terrified puppy in a hurricane.  The trick is the shakes mess with your mind, so you have to stuff that worry down and ignore it. 

4 - Trigger press - When offhand you HAVE to slowly increase pressure and let the trigger release when it wants to.  Surprise break some call it.  Letting the trigger break while maintaining sight alignment and not moving the gun off target are three of the four keys to offhand shooting.  The other being accepting the wobble.  Again, if you try to snatch the trigger as the sight goes by, or time it, you are setting yourself up for unhappiness.   

5 - No need to "death grips" a gun.  A good firm hold is needed, but not a death grip.  Death gripping leads to shakes, which erode your confidence. 

6 - If shooting offhand, close your eyes and bring up the firearm in a natural position for your body.  Open your eyes.  If you are not aligned with the target, shuffle your feet until you are in alignment. Repeat.  If you don't do this, you natural muscle structure will tend to pull the gun to one side or the other in recoil.  For me shooting a handgun offhand, my arm is almost directly out to the side....90 degrees from where my chest is facing.  I never would have known that until told. 

All of these tips are most important with offhand shooting long-barreled muzzle loaders.  Why?  That ball takes a long time (relatively) to exit the muzzle from when you break the trigger.  Lots of room for the rifle to move during that time.  Keeping it on target, with aligned sights and a trigger break that does not disturb the gun is the key. 

I hope these tips help someone.   I am sharing what I learned that helped me.

God Bless,   Marc

[Daryl]

I would add, you should know (see) where the sights were, as the shot goes off & the gun starts to recoil, thus "call" your shot's location on the target.
Try to do that, every shot. "see the ball into the target"- that helps me when shooting a flinter, trying to ignore the flash. I know, some guys say they never see the
flash. There could be 2 reasons for that, one & likely the most prominent reason is that their eyes are closed.  If you do not see the sparks in your peripheral vision
of your shooting eye, then likely your right eye was closed. Just verbalizing a thought, from personal experience.

[rich pierce]

I would add, you should know (see) where the sights were, as the shot goes off & the gun starts to recoil, thus "call" your shot's location on the target.
Try to do that, every shot. "see the ball into the target"- that helps me when shooting a flinter, trying to ignore the flash. I know, some guys say they never see the
flash. There could be 2 reasons for that, one & likely the most prominent reason is that their eyes are closed.  If you do not see the sparks in your peripheral vision
of your shooting eye, then likely your right eye was closed. Just verbalizing a thought, from personal experience.

I’m seeing some of the sparks from the muzzle lately. I don’t know if that means I’m lifting my head.

[MuskratMike]

This last year I had the privilege to call the match at several .22 silhouette matches that are all offhand shots. A couple of excellent shooters and one shooter who is a multiple national champion shooter were there. Since I was calling the match, not shooting gave me an opportunity to watch closely how they shot. Foot positioning, weight balance and how they held their guns has helped me regain some level of ability in my offhand shooting. Age, illness, and lack of upper body strength will never be the same but at least I'm back in the game even it's only for a short time more.

[Seth Isaacson]

6 - If shooting offhand, close your eyes and bring up the firearm in a natural position for your body.  Open your eyes.  If you are not aligned with the target, shuffle your feet until you are in alignment. Repeat.  If you don't do this, you natural muscle structure will tend to pull the gun to one side or the other in recoil.  For me shooting a handgun offhand, my arm is almost directly out to the side....90 degrees from where my chest is facing.  I never would have known that until told. 

This I need to probably keep in mind and be more cognizant of. Part of what I noticed when struggling to keep the rifle on target last weekend was feeling like I had to adjust a fair amount to get the sights where I wanted. Where I shoot I am shooting slightly down hill from an somewhat uneven old concrete pad that was once a live stock barn. Adjusting my stance helped a great deal. I'll really take my time if I get out this weekend. Thanks for sharing.

[HighUintas]

Thank you very much for posting your advice. It seems all very logical and I'll have to put it to use

The "accept the wobble" concept is also used in archery. I am much better in archery and can say that this technique works.

[Dphariss]

I try to wait for a hesitation where i want it to break the trigger. And as i age i do a little better with a set trigger. And don’t hold too long. Past 10 seconds bad things happen for most people. I generally shoot mid 90s standing at 200 in competition with my unmentionable at 200. Never had a clean 10 shot string but got close a couple times last year. This year was not so good most of the time.

[Seth Isaacson]

Set triggers help a great deal since you don't really have to pull the trigger which both makes for a fast pull and less jerking and pulling throwing shots off.

[Daryl]

A single trigger of 3 to 4 pounds does just fine, if you shoot it enough.
It takes practice to become proficient at skill testing games, no matter what they happen to be.
None of us actually practice enough, these days.

[alacran]

My target pistols flint and percussion both have single set triggers by Larry Akers. They are both set at 4 ounces. I can put my trigger finger on them without setting them off. When the force is with me, they break effortlessly. However, there are days that they seem to be 40-pound triggers.
I have a .58 caliber jaeger whose single trigger breaks at 2and 1/2 pounds. There never seems to be a great effort in squeezing it within my wobble.
It is all between the ears!

[Timberdog]

Marcruger that was an excellent post. Thanks for taking the time.  Good and simple (except execution LOL).

[Darkhorse]

I don't think one should "see" the pan flash. That's my opinion.
When I started shooting a flintlock I had a terrible flinch. I soon recognized that as a fact. I had no mentor and figured things out on the go. But I accepted the fact and faced it straight on. It was an obstacle to my shooting and I never considered trying to ignore it. So I trained myself not to have that flinch. It wasn't as easy as it sounds and took quite awhile but I got it done.
By not flinching I no longer see the pan flash what I see now is the front sight "burned" into the target then the flash and ignition are as one and no longer prominent to the shot as I'm still burning that front sight into the target.
Since I no longer am aware of the pan flash this allows me to focus harder on burning that front sight into the target which has tightened my grouping considerably.
My observation is most shooters have some level of that flinch but won't admit it. Not to anybody else, worse, not to themselves. It has also been my observation most remedies to cure that flinch don't work so that just makes it harder to deal with.
Proper form, stance, breathing and trigger control, and no flinch to deal with, and shooting to center are what I call the Zen of the flintlock (after all I do have a martial arts background).
But even all that cannot remove the weight that age and mother nature had placed upon us.

[Daryl]

Sometimes I flinch, some times I don't. (I don't have to be offhand shooting to do it, either)

[Dphariss]

AND…
Marc’s comments of NATURAL POINT OF AIM are very important. So I will expound a little. (?)  Even when shooting prone or sitting. If you muscle the firearm to the target one tends to put it out the other side of center or it will fall back to where the gun was originally pointed. [brass suppository stuff deleted]
And the shooter should, as much as possible, relax. But in the ML game its harder due to different stance in standing.
If you were to search youtube for “Konrad” or “highpower rifle” you will find videos on all the positions used. Some will be of use other stuff not so much. Konrad is good, the military team member stuff is good. But other than standing fundamentals and natural point of aim its not all that applicable.  But this sport started in the 1880s and has been constantly refined and the matches I shoot basically are the way men were trained for WW-II.
If you have a set trigger put the cock/hammer down and dry fire. If not use a wooden flint or something to protect the nipple.
Do 20 rounds of dry fire a day and note what happens when the trigger breaks.
One other thing, do not, if at all possible, put the tip of your finger on the trigger, use the first joint or the area between the first and second joint for a single trigger rifle. Dry firing will show why if you watch carefully. Tip of the finger tends to pull the firearm to the shooting hand side. For a single trigger I like between 1.5 and 2.5 pounds this I can break like a set trigger. HOWEVER. To lighten one to this extend requires knowledge and experience and most people SHOULD NOT DO THIS. It also requires the “mallet or rubber hammer handle test” to be sure its secure and not shock sensitive. Striking the barrel and the buttlplate with a medium blow. Using a grease on the sear nose can also help. It should also stay at full cock with no sear spring pressure. AND this is just for BP MATCH RIFLES. Not hunting. Fingers get cold…. And match rules must be adhered too.
Stay “on the rifle” until the ball strikes the target. Lifting your head early is poison and will cause wild fliers.

[Marcruger]

Dan, you hit on something that I noticed in muzzleloading - relaxing.  With a well balanced swamped barrel, I call the relaxing part "floating".  The rifle just floats there on target.  I relax and the rifle just sort of floats there.  A surprise break of the trigger, and off the ball goes. 

Speaking of triggers, and not to contradict Dan (who has massive experience) but I love a set trigger.  I can shoot a heavy trigger well, but I don't like it.  It is sort of like the question, "Can you ride a bike uphill?"  Yep, I can but I would much rather ride downhill and enjoy it.  For me, a good single trigger is a good working choice, but I'll always prefer a set trigger. 

The last thought is that I really don't notice the pan flash on a flintlock.  I am focusing my attention out there on whatever I am shooting at.  Trying to float that front sight steady on the target and break the trigger with no movement.  I have found in teaching folks flintlocks that an "active" target like a tin can or plastic bottle is much better for beginners than paper.  They focus on hitting that rampaging, charging, dangerous plastic bottle, and never notice the pan flash.  My favorite muzzleloader target is a clay bird on the 50 yard berm offhand.  It focuses my brain. 

Just some thoughts.  I am glad my post is getting some reading.   God Bless,   Marc

[Dphariss]

I have a Kibler Colonial in the works that I built a SS trigger for. It is like some of the English SS triggers it has no adjustment screw and is very light. Need to shoot it, regulate the sights and get the final finish in the wood and engrave/finish the metal. I have one have been shooting with the plain trigger which is excellent out of the box BTW but decided I wanted one with a metal box not wood and figured I would a set trigger too.