Author Topic: Comma patent breech  (Read 1023 times)

Offline HighUintas

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Comma patent breech
« on: November 17, 2023, 07:14:25 PM »
Is this comma shaped patent breech available anywhere? I haven't seen one on any of the supplier sites that I can remember and wonder if it would have to be custom made




Offline rich pierce

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Re: Comma patent breech
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2023, 08:37:06 PM »
I’ve not seen one in years. Some patent breeches have enough steel to do some re-shaping. Here’s one I’ve modified to what I call the “conquistador helmet” shape.



Andover, Vermont

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Comma patent breech
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2023, 09:38:05 PM »
Here is a picture of a picture of one I thought was a " conquistador " style. Breech and lock were hand made but I'm thinking someone years ago made some castings of that style breech.


Offline JTR

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Re: Comma patent breech
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2023, 10:20:21 PM »
John Robbins

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Comma patent breech
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2023, 10:22:09 PM »
Here is a picture of a picture of one I thought was a " conquistador " style. Breech and lock were hand made but I'm thinking someone years ago made some castings of that style breech.

Bang on. There were many variations and this was as close as I could get without getting globs welded on.
Andover, Vermont

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Comma patent breech
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2023, 02:53:58 AM »
Rich, I had thought about finding one that I could shape, but the one below is the The only one I could find that seems like it might have enough meat on it and it's a vertical instead of a slant breech.

https://www.logcabinshop.com/catalog.php?path=183_165_36&product_id=25305

It would be great if there were some castings around of that conquistador -shaped breech... I like that one too.

That guy's shop on eBay has quite the variety of items, but nothing that matches, I don't think.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Comma patent breech
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2023, 03:37:13 AM »
I think many of the comma style snails on rifled by the Hawken brothers had vertical breeches.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Comma patent breech
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2023, 03:59:23 AM »
 If anybody knows of a source for that comma pattern breach I would be interested as well. W.H. Brown whose stamp is on that lock was a gunsmith later in Lake County California. He was also a material witness in the Daringer vs. A.J. Plate case that also embroiled the Slotterbek brothers. Who also used this breach style.

Hungry Horse

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Comma patent breech
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2023, 06:09:52 AM »
If anybody knows of a source for that comma pattern breach I would be interested as well. W.H. Brown whose stamp is on that lock was a gunsmith later in Lake County California. He was also a material witness in the Daringer vs. A.J. Plate case that also embroiled the Slotterbek brothers. Who also used this breach style.

Hungry Horse

I don't know anything about that, but it sounds interesting. Is this in a particular book that I should read?

I think many of the comma style snails on rifled by the Hawken brothers had vertical breeches.

The only ones I know of are the John Brown Hawken and one that sold at RIA a few years ago https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/77/3054/documented-j.ands.-hawken-half-stock-percussion-rifle. Both this auctioned rifle and the J Brown are not hooked but are patent breeches.

I'm sure there are some other hooked comma breech hawkens out there that may be vertical, but I'm kind of thinking I'd like to try to make a close copy of the Sublette-Beale Hawken, which is the one in my first picture and is slant breech.  It is intriguing to me. I'm bouncing between this or a Rod England kit.

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Comma patent breech
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2023, 06:21:07 AM »
Maaayyyybe this would work. Except it is also vertical. The Griffith percussion breech near the bottom https://www.thehawkenshop.com/BREECHES-TANGS.htm
« Last Edit: November 18, 2023, 10:50:45 AM by HighUintas »

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Comma patent breech
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2023, 06:49:40 AM »
The breech that I posted a picture of was made many many years ago and one I made about 10 years ago were fashioned after one on a elaborate J & S Hawken rifle that Doc Kenny Leonard had that is now at the Muesum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, NB

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Comma patent breech
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2023, 08:43:37 PM »
This is as close as you will get I think. And its an early design. Pretty much a “comma”. I have one buit into a rifle but its off being color casehardened right now.
Bottom of the page.
Dan
http://www.thehawkenshop.com/BREECHES-TANGS.htm
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Comma patent breech
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2023, 09:35:12 PM »
The breech that I posted a picture of was made many many years ago and one I made about 10 years ago were fashioned after one on a elaborate J & S Hawken rifle that Doc Kenny Leonard had that is now at the Muesum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, NB

I think the one that Bob Browner made has that type of breech also. On the one you made, did you weld the bolster to the breech of the barrel like the ETC Hawken, or was it on the breech pug?

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Comma patent breech
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2023, 10:25:34 PM »
where there is very limited need then the same amount of interest  will follow.Other than the Hawken there is limited interest in caplock rifles on this forum.
It is primarily a flintlock forum and the cappers are guests. I have made these bolstered breeches in years long passed away when I helped Bill Large.
There were cuts made with a small,very fast hand held tool,maybe Dremel and a variety of cutters both rough cut and finer as well as some filing.
Most of this was about 45-50 years ago.Most of them were not hooked breeches . I did not mark them with anything that identified me as the maker of these
breeches and possible the last one I made was for a Whitworth 451 that was a hooked breech but we had the gun and it belonged to a member of the 1980
German International team.I also made a new tumbler for the lock but in my shop instead of Bill's.
I will admit to a strong prefernce for the Eastern target rifles made for 200 meter offhand shooting,all caplocks for bullets ,not balls.
Bob Roller

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Comma patent breech
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2023, 10:59:57 PM »
The breech that I posted a picture of was made many many years ago and one I made about 10 years ago were fashioned after one on a elaborate J & S Hawken rifle that Doc Kenny Leonard had that is now at the Muesum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, NB

I think the one that Bob Browner made has that type of breech also. On the one you made, did you weld the bolster to the breech of the barrel like the ETC Hawken, or was it on the breech pug?
The breech and tang in the photo and the one I made were all made of one solid piece of steel shaft, threaded, drilled and fashioned to fit the lock -plate. Lots-O-work!