Author Topic: lock panel Oops #1  (Read 1546 times)

Offline foresterdj

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lock panel Oops #1
« on: November 25, 2023, 12:17:19 AM »
Circumstances have me working on two .54 caliber Jaegers this winter. Barrel and tang inlays went OK, not perfect but the best I have done so far. (These will be my 3rd and 4th actual builds, ignoring the Kibler SMR I did which really took almost no work on my part.)

Stocks were partially inlaid Black Walnut. The first one had a bit of alignment issue with the lock leaving a tiny gap along top line at rear, which I will fix by glueing a piece inside the mortice so you cannot see into it in that narrow sliver. This is not my problem, but is shown in this first picture. (The other stock did not have this issue and the lock inlay for it went good with no problems of my making.)





The real problem, of my own novice making, is that the lock panel is now too low at the front. I had the lock plate inlaid good and flat bolster to barrel, but then when cleaning up the lock mortice with the inner parts I was having trouble getting it to fit back in tight. Finally saw that it was the hammer hitting and got that cleared (obviously much more shaping to eventually do there). Problem is that in the process I was getting inlet black on the wood shelf the nose of the lock sits on and got that cut too low, so that the front lock bolt (when eventually installed) would tend to rock bolster away. The entire lock plate was well set down into the mortice, so I filed it back some, thinking I had ample thickness to work with before I realized this. To fix my too deep inlay at the front, I glued in a thin piece and went back today to re-inlay that area. I got this done so now the lock sits nice and tight to barrel flat and lock front and rear are well supported with no tendancy to rock. Then I noticed that the lock plate is sitting high at the front. Yes, I know, should have never lowered the lock panel until I was sure the inlay was good.  See pictures.







So what options do I have now?

The first idea I have is to lower the entire lock panel down so it is all this much too low and glue a flat piece of walnut on and re-inlay lock perimeter. Thinking then the seam would be on the lock panel bevel and maybe not too visible.

The rear end of the lock at present is still well set into the lock panel and would need wood off just to get down to the edge of the lock plate bevel.

So, maybe I determine where the lock plate does have sufficient lock panel depth and then just cut lock panel down from there forward. The short vertical line on side where the glue in piece joins  would maybe not show too bad?

Offline JTR

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2023, 01:57:16 AM »
Make sure the front of the main spring isn't holding it up.
A little inletting black will tell the tail.
John Robbins

Online Stoner creek

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2023, 02:03:54 AM »
The lock bolster is obviously at it very near where it should be. With all respect to the previous poster, do not modify the lock. My suggestion is to add wood to the lock side of the stock and re-inlet. Option 2 would be to start all over again.
Modify the lock and you will open a whole nother can of worms, the main problem will be that you will likely have to modify either the barrel or the mainspring in order to get the lock to fit in the mortise.
 I bought a really nice inlet stock from Dunlap that was too thin on the lock side. Iíve epoxied a veneer to the side to compensate. This will fix the problem and be unnoticeable unless you point it out.
 I donít like to conflict another memberís advice but Iíve been down that road before. Seems like I have made every mistake possible.
 Good luck.
W
« Last Edit: November 25, 2023, 02:31:40 AM by Stoner creek »
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Offline JH Ehlers

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2023, 02:09:28 AM »
In the photo your lock looks tight up agains the barrel. You can measure how much your lock needs to move towards the barrel to make that gap dissapear. Check the mainspring if there is enough room to not interfere with the barrel side. You can then file from the bolster and take in to account the lock angle to the barrel when you look down from the top so it don't look too ridiculous. All easier said than done. Or glue some wood onto the panel.

Online Stoner creek

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2023, 03:33:08 AM »
Go ahead and do it the way that the young fella with the famous name tells you. When doing it his way fails repost.
 Locks are expensive. A 3Ēx 5Ē piece of wood is not.
 There is in excess of 1/8Ē of wood at the front of the lock that is not there.
 Go ahead. You will not only have to taper the bolster but the foot of the frizzen as well.  All of this will need to be equal and precise. Tapering the bolster will also kick the tail of the lock outwards. Do you have enough wood to make this work? Not to mention the problem that a future owner may have should he need to replace a part.
 Again, I wish you good luck!!
W
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Offline Bob Gerard

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2023, 03:59:38 AM »
Filing away at the lock to get a fit is not my idea of a good solution. It would be a lot of bolster material to remove to sink that lock into a proper fitting depth into the stock. Then you'll have to inlet everything else deeper, and you will probably run into issues with mainspring touching the barrel and who knows what else.
It REALLY isn't that hard to marry flat-to-flat pieces of wood. You have a good flat surface to work with on that lock panel. Use it!
For real, that would be the easiest, less intrusive and sure way to fix your issue, I would suggest (also).
p.s., You're also looking at just a couple hours of work this way, and bang, its finished. Other options... who knows when/if you'll ever get it done right.
Best wishes,
Bob
« Last Edit: November 25, 2023, 04:05:08 AM by Bob Gerard »

Online Stoner creek

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2023, 04:07:09 AM »
Tapering the lock bolster will also make the lock panels on either side equally narrower which in turn could affect the diameter of the forearm forward of the lock in a clumsy way. Cause and effect. The more time you spend on these things the more you understand how seemingly small changes make a big difference. I want to see us all do good work!!
W
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Offline foresterdj

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2023, 04:24:23 AM »
Thanks all.I think I will glue a piece onto the lock panel as described. That does sound easiest and I have the wood for it.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2023, 04:38:22 AM »
I agree with starting over with a piece glued on. Some food for thought: when lining up your lock for the new inlet make sure the vent location is in its proper local AND make sure your front lock bolt will pass between RR hole and barrel. These two first things are very important. Don't worry about the main spring untill you get these first two things right. JMHO

Online Stoner creek

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2023, 04:44:05 AM »
I wonder how many tapered locks bolsters that there are out there. Itís not something that you would go looking for.
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Offline Gaeckle

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2023, 06:20:13 AM »
Just for gits and shiggles take a C clamp and apply compression where your lock bolts should be and see how much the lock draws in......got nothing to lose, but you may see that lock getting closer to where you need it. What you're doing with the c-clamps is mimicking the lock bolts


Just an idea......

Offline JTR

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2023, 07:12:44 PM »
I would urge you to check the main spring clearance before you do anything else.

It's beyond simple, just remove the spring, then put the lock back in, squeeze it in with your fingers and see how it fits.

John Robbins

Offline foresterdj

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2023, 10:02:30 PM »
The positioning I had seemed good, lock bolster was flat and tight to barrel side flat, pan position just enough forward that touch hole liner would clear the breach plug seat, good lock bolster position for primary lock bolt to come through breach plug bolster, and assuming ram rod hole is the same position and spacing as visible at muzzle end the forward lock bolt should be able to come through the wood web into front nose of lock. Not perfectly centered in front nose but close.

Made sure lock panel was flat and even!y low front and back and using tight bond 2 glue I glued a 1/4" walnut piece on, it is drying until tomorrow. Then back to inletting, hopefully no more blunders on this step. ( Plenty of opportunities for blunders elsewhere.)

Offline BJH

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2023, 06:04:59 PM »
I had a friend get nutz with the band saw and zipped both of his lock panels away. He came to me in a bit of a panic after. Fortunately he did not dispose if the cut off wood. So we made everything flat and straight and glued the wood back. And he went on about the business of building the rifle with me watching over him for advise etc. The rifle received a ribbon in the Apprentice first gun category at the Gunmakers Fair At Dixonís. No mention of the laminated lock panels was made on the critique. They were noticeable only if you were looking for them, and well camouflaged by stain and finish. BJH
BJH

Offline foresterdj

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2023, 09:48:30 PM »
Glued on walnut panel and re inlaid. This turned out OK and as some said I do not think the seam will even be noticeable. BUT then a little later I was using jig to drill through the main lock bolt and without noticing my drill jig had slipped off the center punched point on the lock. End result, the hole in lock bolster was too close to the edge to tap and no room to reposition, thus I considered that lock plate wasted. I looked into getting a new lock plate, which are available, but they come with none of the holes in them.  So, I accepted my expensive error and ordered a new lock and finally got back to working on it today (thank heavens the other gun I am working on at the same time is coming along OK).

I took the lock apart to do some adjusting to the inlay because the plate on the new lock was not curved exactly as the previous. Just slight, but enough so I could either set the nose into the existing (already second) inlay, or I could put the tail in, but not both. I thought the tail fit best and the new tweaks would be less noticeable at the nose, so I took a few tiny slices off and it fits in tight to barrel and stabile in the stock. But where I had cleared for hammer clearance there was a sliver of gap into the works. Right now sitting with another narrow strip of wood glued on to close that gap.

Also noticed that on the tumbler, the half cock notch was half broken off. I will call TOTW and I am sure they will send a new tumbler. Though for now the tumbler from the previous lock (I kept all the internals for spare parts) seems to fit and turn in this new lock plate even better than the one it came with.


Online Stoner creek

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2023, 10:04:26 PM »
This project has turned into an adventure.
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Offline foresterdj

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2023, 10:13:59 PM »
Indeed. Maybe I will luck out and all the boo boos will be on the one rifle and the other will turn out OK.

Online Stoner creek

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2023, 10:21:38 PM »
There are very few flawless pieces. A good maker can make a mistake look natural.
W
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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: lock panel Oops #1
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2023, 07:20:10 PM »
   You learn far more by your mistakes fixing them.  Than you will learn by not having any... At least for me it was...