Author Topic: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen  (Read 1334 times)

Offline yulzari

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Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« on: November 20, 2023, 06:25:49 PM »
Has anyone have any experience or input on such a thing? Titanium seems to have the capacity to act just as a steel hammer does but with a hotter white spark of titanium shavings from a flint. This chap is using a titanium fire starter of the same pattern as steel ones and it works well from the video.
I have an old Mac allegedly titanium computer case I could cut up. From what I can discover on titanium work a thin strip of titanium could be fixed to a steel hammer either by epoxy or riveting. Soldering is not an option.
As to why do such a thing, it looks like it could be a more reliable sparker than steel and far safer than the depleted uranium tried years ago. As far as I can determine titanium is softer than high carbon steel as in a conventional hammer so it might have implications for the stone being used perhaps?
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Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2023, 08:09:01 PM »
Many products use the word "Titanium" as a buzz word. Other than its use in jets I have no use for it.
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Online bob in the woods

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2023, 08:16:33 PM »
If sparking is the subject here, I can't see how my locks can be more reliable than they are now. They spark like mad. It's the touch hole and prime that require a bit of attention in order to translate those sparks into a successful and quick ignition.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2023, 09:02:28 PM »
 What is advertised as titanium, is more likely spent uranium. This was such a big deal years ago that I actually competed head to head with a guy that advocated this frizzen halfsole material. First off white sparks aren’t all they are cracked up to be. Secondly you are scraping uranium off the frizzen inches from your mouth and nose. I’m sure your doctor would blow a gasket if he heard about that. Oh, I won with an old GRF lock with a half soled frizzen face reworked with an old piece of commercial hacksaw blade. Nothing new here!

Hungry Horse

Online Bob Roller

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2023, 09:41:16 PM »
I remember Russ Hamm had some of his Maslin locks with a "deactivated"material on the frizzen..I had no interest in the idea and still don't.
"Wildcatting"a flintlock was what some of the flintlock shooters and that time called it.Early 1960's as I recall----maybe.I was andstill am skeptical
of anything that may have been or still is radioactive.When I made the Chet Shoults locks I case hardened the frizzens with Kasenit and the steel
was 8620 and when Leonard Meadows made my SMR it had that lock,made in 1965.I shot that rifle and my long range Whitworth intil I sold them
in 1973.Never thought once about a space age material for a frizzen.Going to a flawed memory,I think I refitted that lock with a new case hardened
frizzen and "reconditioned"the original and learned that that lock had worn out a Bill Large barrel twice and it was replaced by a Douglas barrel
and then with the Large barrel after it was restored.
Bob Roller




Bob Roller.

Online snapper

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2023, 09:44:45 PM »
Why would you think that something that is stated as titanium is spent uranium?

Two totally separate things.   

Fleener

My taste are simple:  I am easily satisfied with the best.  Winston Churchill

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2023, 10:19:52 PM »
 Fleener, maybe because I have a frizzen I got in a trade that has a piece glued to the frizzen. I replaced that frizzen with an old Dixie F1 flintlock frizzen that I reshaped to fit. This frizzen is about thirty five years old or more.

 Hungry Horse

Online snapper

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2023, 11:48:30 PM »
I get it now, kinda like saying you think an apple is an orange because you once saw one.

Fleener
My taste are simple:  I am easily satisfied with the best.  Winston Churchill

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2023, 04:16:33 AM »
I really know nothing about this space age stuff but if my frizzen sparks I'm thinking its because the flint is sharp enuf and not the type of frizzen metal.

Offline Roger B

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2023, 04:40:58 AM »
The depleted uranium was sometimes referred to as "moon metal". Since it was uranium they probably should have called it Uranus metal. Saw a large Siler half soled with the stuff & boy did it spark!  Though depleted, it was still radioactive & not good to be exposed to over time. Opens enemy tanks at long range really well too.
Never underestimate the sheer destructive power of a minimally skilled, but highly motivated man with tools.

Offline TDM

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2023, 08:49:33 AM »
My locks spark just fine as is. But to each his on.

Offline jpldude

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2023, 10:19:25 AM »
Back in the late '70's & early '80's I worked in my Scoutmaster's shop making snake hooks & zoo nets. The snake hooks were made from 1/4" & 3/8" Titanium rod. I would grind them to shape on a belt sander (Norton 80 grit?) or grinding wheel, finish them on a Beartex wheel then polish on a buffing wheel. Titanium definitely throws sparks. Mr. Fuhrman said it was one of the few non-ferrous metals that did. Given the effort & time it took to grind, finish, polish & bend the titanium rod into snake hooks, I'd say it's a long shot that a flint could scrape off enough sparks in the few milli-seconds it's in contact with the frizzen. But...Hey, the proof of the pudding is in the tasting, so somebody will have to try it out & let us know.
John L.
Houston, Texas

Offline yulzari

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2023, 01:30:18 PM »
For the record, I did specifically say that titanium was safer than depleted uranium ie the two are not the same thing. Radioactivity is not an issue with titanium.
My interest in titanium is about its proven ability to throw hot sparks and I want to gather any experience or knowledge others might have before I set up a trial. I do know that a well hardened carbon steel will do an excellent job when all goes well but there is a misfire rate nevertheless. Especially when the flint is not of the best. I am sure someone will tell me that they have rarely ever had a misfire and I would not presume to doubt them but ‘normal’ (for a given level of normal) people do get them and military period trials showed an alarming rate of misfires.
If the titanium ‘steeling’ of a hammer (commonly called the Frizzen in modern American) will give more reliable sparking due to hotter and/or more generous sparks it would help to reduce misfires, and if it can do so with poorer flints or flint substitutes and/or cope with flint wear better then we would get a more ‘soldier proof’ flintlock than in the past.
I have no ambition to push titanium as a material but when I found out about it’s sparking potential I thought I would investigate to assuage my curiosity and pass on the results when I find out but I am wise old enough to ask about in case someone else has already tried it out and save me the trouble.
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2023, 03:51:47 PM »
Question #1 is can titanium be filed with a regular file. If so, it won’t last as a face or sole for a frizzen. Hardened steel and flint have a special relationship. The flint scrapes off tiny but very hot sparks. Any other successful pairing of stone and metal would need the same special relationship. Scrape off tiny hot bits of metal. Few stones are knappable and almost all have the same hardness as flint, chert, jasper, and agate, all of which can be used to make gunflints. Obsidian and glass are either softer or weaker or both and will not work as gunflints on hardened steel frizzens. Of course stones of varying hardness could be cut but unless they self-knap - as flint does in use - they will just crumble or round over. Self-napping is essential for repeated reliable sparking in a flintlock.

Many low carbon steels throw sparks when grinding. But they won’t work as frizzen faces. A grinder and a flintlock mechanism are not very comparable.

Question #2 is whether titanium works as the steel in a flint and steel application. And start fire in tinder.
Andover, Vermont

Offline WKevinD

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2023, 04:57:52 PM »
Titanium frizzen faces? Next thing you know people will start stuffing powder and lead in little brass tubes and putting them in the back end of a barrel.

Kevin
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Offline Robby

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2023, 08:42:18 PM »
I used to make titanium wool on a lathe, chop it up with tin snips and make my own fire works with it. It burns bright white, kind of an understatement!!
I don't know about its use as a frizzed face, but it does have its used outside of aero frames.
Robby
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Offline JH Ehlers

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2023, 09:20:45 PM »
I think someone should try this(not me) and while they're at it, make a barrel and other hardware out of titanium as well.  ;D

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2023, 12:37:22 AM »
I guess after all these posts, anyone interested could alternately just get a small piece, shape it and dbl stick it or whatever to a frizzen for a test and, well, test it.  Who knew?

I'm going to stir up a nice gin and tonic now with my depleted uranium swizzle stick.

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/sheet-metal/material~titanium-2/
« Last Edit: November 22, 2023, 12:40:44 AM by Eric Kettenburg »
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Offline Long Ears

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2023, 04:04:39 AM »
Boy, you can sure tell this is a traditional longrifle forum. I don't think you're going to find much interest in trying to improve the oldest reliable ignition system to date. Fantastic forum and extremely talented artists with somewhat of a since of humor. Please don't change! Bob

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Titanium ‘Steel’/Hammer/Battery/Frizzen
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2023, 05:17:49 PM »
OK. I will try this again.
I have no idea if Titanium will work, I don’t care.
This alloy was probably made for some specific purpose. Almost ALL modern alloys are. Such as Gun Metal is a specific Bronze alloy used in cannon.
There are steel alloys used in firearms, modern ones, that have been in use since the 1930s at least, found mostly through trial and error when high pressure propellants came into use. But they work perfectly for the purpose.
I would think that a properly hardened carbon steel, something over 50 points of carbon will make as good a frizzen as could be wanted. Unfortunately many modern cast frizzens are made of “mystery metal” and some, from various makers, will not spark sufficiently until faced with plain high carbon steel. All protestations by the seller to the contrary not withstanding. They, and they know this, are held hostage by the foundry. If the foundry has a ladle that has been used for an alloy with Chrome and/or Moly and the pot is not CLEANED before casting then the steel is “contaminated” and the frizzen may well be $#@*. This is why when steel is made for a specific alloy of higher quality it has to be made in a clean ladle since anything in the ladle can produce steel that is not the specific alloy or meet the inclusion level required by the spec.
So we get frizzens that won’t spark until faced. A guild member even called a lock maker about this. The lock maker was adamant that the frizzens were plain high carbon. So like me he faced the thing to fix it. Its a running joke. I don’t think Titanium is the answer.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine