Author Topic: Blind slot key escutcheons  (Read 1163 times)

Offline stan57

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Blind slot key escutcheons
« on: November 28, 2023, 09:30:56 PM »
I was reviewing Mr. Glazener's thread on The Whale's Rifle* on display at Horseshoe Bend NMP, and was intrigued by the wedge key setup on the weapon. The keys are inserted from the right side of the weapon thru conventional slotted escutcheons, but do not appear to pass fully through the stock. The corresponding left-side escutcheon is blank, effectively creating a "blind" key installation. Is there an advantage to this setup? It would seem that if the key has a beveled or sharpened end that it would compromise the fit on the "blind" side. Also, you can't tap them out now; you have to "claw" them out with a tool from the right. Thoughts?

Right:



Left:




______________________________________________
* https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=46438.0





« Last Edit: November 28, 2023, 09:34:15 PM by stan57 »

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15214
Re: Blind slot key escutcheons
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2023, 09:40:23 PM »
The builder would not have to make the key long enough to pass through, as well as cutting the second slot. Those are the advantages as I see them.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline stan57

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Blind slot key escutcheons
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2023, 09:59:32 PM »
Agree on both points. I wonder why he even put the escutcheon on the blind side if he did not penetrate fully? I guess for symmetry.

Offline HighUintas

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
Re: Blind slot key escutcheons
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2023, 10:13:24 PM »
It appears the escutcheons are directly over the rod pipes. Are the pipe pins covered by the escutcheons?

Offline stan57

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Blind slot key escutcheons
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2023, 10:18:15 PM »
Yep, appear covered. They're never coming back out.

Offline bama

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2120
    • Calvary Longrifles
Re: Blind slot key escutcheons
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2023, 03:33:03 AM »
These are false wedge plates. There is no wedge, just pins covered by these false plates. The barrel lugs are basically hooks that slip over the pins. To take the barrel out you have to remove the tang bolt and pull the barrel towards the muzzle far enough to clear the pins and then lift the barrel out.
Jim Parker

"An Honest Man is worth his weight in Gold"

Offline stan57

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Blind slot key escutcheons
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2023, 05:22:46 AM »
Hmmm. So what appears to be the head of the key in the top pic is just a fake lump? Interesting.  Implement a barrel retention system, then disguise it as another...
« Last Edit: November 29, 2023, 05:34:07 AM by stan57 »

Offline 2 shots

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
Re: Blind slot key escutcheons
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2023, 05:33:48 AM »
seems logical. the wedge seems way too low or is that just the angle of the picture?

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15214
Re: Blind slot key escutcheons
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2023, 05:35:21 AM »
These are false wedge plates. There is no wedge, just pins covered by these false plates. The barrel lugs are basically hooks that slip over the pins. To take the barrel out you have to remove the tang bolt and pull the barrel towards the muzzle far enough to clear the pins and then lift the barrel out.

Yes - that is interesting.
Here's a somewhat different one, a Jacob KUntz.
Wedge from the left side, but a pin on the right.




Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline stan57

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Blind slot key escutcheons
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2023, 05:45:32 AM »
Interesting
« Last Edit: December 07, 2023, 12:17:55 AM by stan57 »

Offline Jerry V Lape

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3024
Re: Blind slot key escutcheons
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2023, 09:04:10 AM »
On the Kuntz rifle, do you know what the wedge and pins look like?  Is the pin an extension of the wedge? 

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12566
Re: Blind slot key escutcheons
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2023, 08:29:02 PM »
Daryl has posted pictures of a a rifle I made.  The original rifle(s) that I was using for reference had keys like those of the OP's pictured rifle.  But I remove my barrel every time I clean it, so I made slides that engage the lugs in the barrel but do not perforate the escutcheons on the other side of the stock.  Instead, I simply drilled a 1/16" hole in the escutcheon plate to insert a pin punch to push out the slide.  I've never used the hook and pin method bama describes, but it sounds intriguing.
On my rifle, the heads of the slides are pure silver silver soldered to brass slides.  And they are captured slides, so they cannot be completely withdrawn, or lost.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7714
Re: Blind slot key escutcheons
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2023, 08:53:16 PM »
Nice and effective method Taylor, especially for those who want to remove barrel to flush\clean.

Offline JTR

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4246
Re: Blind slot key escutcheons
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2023, 09:41:31 PM »
Just for the fun of it, here's how Henry Young, Easton, Pa. did it back in the original times.
The pins to capture the lugs go in through the barrel channel.

 Iron lug with silver escutcheon.


Here is the blind side.


Lug retracted.


Here's one with a missing inlay.



« Last Edit: November 29, 2023, 10:13:10 PM by JTR »
John Robbins

Offline Dave B

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3114
Re: Blind slot key escutcheons
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2023, 10:57:53 PM »
There are examples of the Faux wedge key heads on the Eagle rifle Bivins did the articles on restoration in Rifle magazine reprinted in Gunsmithing tips and projects. Pictures of the escutchon plate with faux wedge heads are found on Pgs 437,438. I have a Huntington Co. rifle with the wedge slot and round puch out hole like the previous photos show. The wedge is not captured.






The head of the wedge was peaned over I suspect or filed out from slightly larger cast stock. It has the look of being made from a strip of brass stock.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2023, 11:06:30 PM by Dave B »
Dave Blaisdell