Author Topic: Set trigger for Woodsrunner  (Read 1898 times)

Offline Bob Gerard

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Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« on: December 08, 2023, 01:32:46 AM »
Just to follow-up on an idea posted on an earlier thread on the subject; Has anyone here installed a Single (or Double Set ) trigger on a Kibler Woodsrunner, using the existing trigger guard?
Thanks,
Bob
« Last Edit: December 08, 2023, 01:39:47 AM by Bob Gerard »

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2023, 04:51:39 AM »
Thereís just NOT room for a double sett.
I think, with a little planning and adapting, you could get a single in there. Gonna depend on the layout of the trigger for sure.
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Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2023, 05:27:07 AM »
I think Jim K. has addressed those questions and his reply IIRC was the same, just not enuf room.  :-\

Offline Bob Gerard

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2023, 06:30:04 AM »
Yes, Not enough room for a double set, but I was curious if anyone had success with a single set trigger.

Offline Darkhorse

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2023, 10:48:12 PM »
I don't know about a Kibler but I have fit one into a Track of the Wolf Isacc Haines kit. They also told me it wouldn't fit and there wasn't enough room. I decided to try it for myself.
First of all I had to be judicial in the layout. I marked where the triggers themselves had to be then moved the triggerguard using the triggers taped to the stock for reference. The trigger guard ended up about 5/8" of an inch towards the butt. This left some inletting showing on the front  of the trigger guard. I carefully worked to stock here down until no inlet was left and stopped right there. Upon installation I bent the front of the TG down slightly so that when installed the spring type pressure would help anchor the front of the TG.
I had to modify the front of the trigger bar and a tab on the TG to fit them together.
After mounting I ground a little off the lower rear trigger and filed some off the inside of the trigger bar where they would meet when the triggers were set. This served to give more room to set the back trigger.
The result was you can't look at it  and tell any mods were done. The trigger sets with no problems at all and works perfect. As for longitivity I did this right at 20 years ago and this is one of my hunting rifles which is not babied and so far it still looks and works like it did when the rifle was built.
I would think a single set should come close to working but I don't know for sure as I've never fit one into a rifle.
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2023, 07:32:46 AM »
Just to follow-up on an idea posted on an earlier thread on the subject; Has anyone here installed a Single (or Double Set ) trigger on a Kibler Woodsrunner, using the existing trigger guard?
Thanks,
Bob
I did some welding on a Colonial trigger plate for pin bosses and built a ss trigger modeled after one show as a drawing in English Guns and Rifles by Nigel George. I have done several of these and like the it. The new Davis Ss is the same design. Great ss. Rifle is in final sanding , I hope. Trigger is not assembled right now.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2023, 07:46:01 AM by Dphariss »
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2023, 07:45:02 AM »


He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline dadybear1

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2023, 04:20:28 PM »
I USED A SINGLE SET TRIGGER FROM MBS SEVERAL YEARS AGO ON A RIFLE WORKED OUT GREAT!!!

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2023, 04:35:46 PM »
Iím impressed and confused by complicated single set trigger designs. Iíve never had an engineering type brain. Iím also nowhere near the quality shooter Dan is, and so have not found set triggers to improve my shooting much. But for those with some natural skill and decades of practice, set triggers can make quite a difference. Very impressed with those who can make such a complicated mechanism.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2023, 05:00:17 PM by rich pierce »
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Offline Blacksmoke

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2023, 04:57:10 PM »
Single set or double set triggers will only make a difference for flint shooters if the ignition train is fast! Not much use for "hiss boomers"! My experience.  Hugh Toenjes
H.T.

Offline Bob Gerard

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2023, 12:58:30 AM »
Iíve taken deer with a Kibler Colonial, but not a competition yet. Iíve won and placed with my double set trigger rifle. In the best of both worlds, my Woodsrunner would have a double set trigger🙂

Offline Daryl

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2023, 02:58:26 AM »
Should be easy job to make a single trigger have a 2 to 3 pound trigger pull. For years, I used a 3 pound "match" trigger in 3-position rifle competition.
My .69 had a 4 pound trigger and it shoots just fine.(when I don't flinch) It's certainly won enough monthly matches here since March of 2020.
Daryl

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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2023, 10:11:42 PM »
Iím impressed and confused by complicated single set trigger designs. Iíve never had an engineering type brain. Iím also nowhere near the quality shooter Dan is, and so have not found set triggers to improve my shooting much. But for those with some natural skill and decades of practice, set triggers can make quite a difference. Very impressed with those who can make such a complicated mechanism.

In years now long gone I made these single sets using a very similar pattern but they are not easy.This drawing leaves out the small
spring that activates the release bar or sear as some call it.There are others that are very complicated and were made by watch makers
in the French speaking section of Switzerland.These designs allow the release bar to strike the sear in the lock with no or little movement
of the trigger by the shooters finger.This info came from a German gun maker,Helmut Mohr in Mayen/Hausen Germany.I made locks for him
and double set triggers and German style cap locks for target rifles .
Bob Roller

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2023, 12:39:53 AM »
 Just because you can wad a single set trigger into a Woods Runner doesn't mean you should. The gun is a gun of the frontier that would very likely not have had any sort of set trigger. A simple trigger can be made to shoot with very little effort, and on a flintlock that usually just fine given most of the  lock times  involved.

Hungry Horse

Offline Habu

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2023, 05:49:14 AM »
I put a single-set trigger in a Woodsrunner at the request of the owner (I've been waiting to reply in hope he'd post himself).  He finds it easier to use a single set than a regular trigger because it is easier for him to set the trigger (a relatively-gross motor function) with his hook, then trip the trigger with a slight movement (fine motor function).  With even a 3# trigger, he's not able to be competitive.  He added that the Woodsrunner is easier to handle from a wheelchair than a longer gun (e.g. Kibler's Colonial). 

I think Dan's solution of building a set trigger on the original trigger plate is more elegant.


Offline Bob Gerard

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2023, 08:11:38 AM »
Habu can you share what single set trigger you used?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 03:06:28 PM by Bob Gerard »

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2023, 06:57:01 PM »
Just because you can wad a single set trigger into a Woods Runner doesn't mean you should. The gun is a gun of the frontier that would very likely not have had any sort of set trigger. A simple trigger can be made to shoot with very little effort, and on a flintlock that usually just fine given most of the  lock times  involved.

Hungry Horse
[/quote
Some of the best shooting I ever did was with a semi military Whitworth with no set trigger but had a very fine lock,a "4 pin" Brazier
and a trigger with a light spring that allowed it to follow the movements of the sear.My own copy of a Henry long range rifle had a copy
of a "4 pin" Stanton" and the same trigger as the Whitworth and I was able to shoot more knock downs at 500 meters that the breech
loaders.I have made a lot of double set triggers and if my wife gets well enough to be alone in the house i may make a few more
and we thank all who prayed for us.She may have to walk with cane from now on but she has a good one with a 4 pronged foot

Bob Roller.

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2023, 08:53:41 PM »
I bought a hand made single set trigger a while back.  It requires setting before cocking the gun.  The kick lever stays up under spring tension after firing.  It is also extremely fickle on how it is adjusted.  The pull is incredibly light.  I will not install it on a gun due to safety and likely reliability issues.   

I also bought an Italian, French style, target pistol with a single set trigger.  IT works as above.  I have never shot it. 

An AD can be tragic I am not willing to risk it.

Kibler guns have great locks and very light, yet safe, triggers.  I see no reason to change anything.  A 3# and crisp trigger is good enough for anyone to shoot well.  If they think they need lighter then they need to work on their flinching and follow through problems. 
« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 09:04:20 PM by Scota4570 »

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2023, 09:58:32 PM »
The "need" for a set trigger, in many cases, is a product of our 21st C society.  Many people are not willing to put in the time and effort to make a simple trigger work for them.  I have a client who shoots a 20 gauge smoothbore competitively, and he has had me work on his locks (he has several for the same gun, in case one fails at a match) so that the trigger pull is a crisp 2# or less.  Most of us here will agree that this is ridiculously light for a trade gun lock, yet my friend insists upon it.  Each to his own...
Having thrown him under the bus, I put a single set trigger in my Mark Silver Chambers' Virginia rifle.  I bought the trigger from MBS, and it fit easily into that rifle without any issues.  I shoot that rifle really well, and consider it my best and favourite offhand rifle, in .50 cal. and at 10 pounds.  I bought a second barrel for the rifle a few years ago, a .60 cal barrel from Barbie Chambers, and that lightened up the rifle considerably...a wonderful shooter!





« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 10:08:12 PM by D. Taylor Sapergia »
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Offline Bob Gerard

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2023, 11:56:44 PM »
Thanks D. Taylor. Thatís good information.
Honestly, whatís with people trippin out for if someone wants to try adding a single set trigger to a Kibler Woodsrunner?
 ďThose rifles  donít need itĒ and ďyou canít shoot well if you need oneĒÖ
Itís my rifle, its my money, itís my curiosity and itís my decision.
Lighten up, folks. You may be happier and live longer 😉

Offline Stoner creek

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2023, 12:16:02 AM »
Thanks D. Taylor. Thatís good information.
Honestly, whatís with people trippin out for if someone wants to try adding a single set trigger to a Kibler Woodsrunner?
 ďThose rifles  donít need itĒ and ďyou canít shoot well if you need oneĒÖ
Itís my rifle, its my money, itís my curiosity and itís my decision.
Lighten up, folks. You may be happier and live longer 😉

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Offline Habu

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2023, 08:59:02 PM »
Habu can you share what single set trigger you used?
As I wrote in response to your question on another forum, we used a Hollenbaugh trigger. 

Offline Darkhorse

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Re: Set trigger for Woodsrunner
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2023, 11:13:56 PM »
Thanks D. Taylor. Thatís good information.
Honestly, whatís with people trippin out for if someone wants to try adding a single set trigger to a Kibler Woodsrunner?
 ďThose rifles  donít need itĒ and ďyou canít shoot well if you need oneĒÖ
Itís my rifle, its my money, itís my curiosity and itís my decision.
Lighten up, folks. You may be happier and live longer 😉

Well said Bob. The single trigger in my .54 weighs just under 3 pounds and I can shoot it very well. I prefer a single trigger in a hunting rifle. However I really like double set triggers for most of my shooting. So I never concerned myself about what anybody thought about me fitting double set's in a Isacc Haines kit .40 caliber. This rifle was built to be my turkey rifle, small game rifle and maybe some match shooting. I consider it to be perfect for the intended applications.
After all, as you said, it's my decision.



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