Lock tuning question Jaeger SUCCESS

[Mike Brooks]

I shot a gun with this lock exclusively for 8 years. It's main problem is the flint ends up so far into the pan the edge gets blown off dull with the gases from the vent hole. It is very fast, just awfully hard on flints. I used Brownell's "Gunslick" for lube and lot's of it which resolved the problems you're having. Rebounding was always a problem for this lock,  but I learned to live with it. All in all it worked and was fast when I paid attention to the condition of the flint edge. I tied a National Flint shotgun record with it at friendship in '86.

[alacran]

It is amazing how identical locks from the same manufacturer can have so radically different performance levels. I get great service from the flints on this Davis lock. I have to knap the flint about every 15 to 20 shots. I get about 50 to 60 shots out of a flint with this lock. Sometimes you get a great flint that will exceed the norm and occasionally you get a flint that requires more frequent knapping and you are lucky to get 30 shots out of it.

[Pukka Bundook]

Seems to me in the above photos the flint is hitting way too low.
I'd reverse it (flat side up) and see what happens, but fully realize you likely tried that!

I have One Chambers Early Ketland that rebounds.  None of the others do. I think I fixed it but have to see what I did as I don't remember.
Yours cant be rebounding if the cock is hung up on the frizzen without finishing its stroke.

As you know, if the hammer (frizzen) is too soft it can hang up.

Best,
Rich.

[smylee grouch]

I also had one of those locks 30+ or - years ago and had good luck with mine. Never kept track of number of shots per flint but it was ok I thought at the time.

[Daryl]

Different thickness & angle of the hump flat of the actual flints will give different striking heights on the hammer, when the bevel is down, sometimes by quite a LOT.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I employed this lock on my personal Jaeger rifle, and it served me very well for many years.  But over the course of time, I tinkered with it to make it better, so here are some of my observations.
First, I used 7/8" flints.  That's 7/8" in length not width.  I shot them bevel up and bevel down, according to the way they looked when clamped in the jaws.  Of note, particular to this thread, the gap between the flint and the frizzen needs to be as close as you can get it, without interfering with the frizzen closing on the pan.  With my own rifle, I had issues with the flint striking the pan when I set the flint close as I've described.  So I did something quite radical.  I clamped the tumbler in a machinist's vise, heated the tumbler axle red with an Oxy/acetylene torch and rotated the axle back a few degrees.  After this treatment, the flint no longer struck the pan.  The same effect might have been accomplished by adding a shim of steel to the inside shoulder of the cock where it strikes the top of the lock plate at rest, thereby impeding its forward rotation.
I never had issues like the op with the frizzen not fully opening.  On my lock, the frizzen snapped open when the pan cover was about 3/8" off the pan.  And it never rebounded - ever.  If I was dealing with your lock, I would file on the top leaf of the frizzen spring some, then re-polish, to reduce the force it applies to the toe of the frizzen.  Balancing the springs, is likely all this lock needs.  But move the flint forward in the jaws until it almost touches the frizzen face.
My lock threw sparks like a cutting torch, and the rifle accounted for many honours in competition, and many heads of game including mule deer, black bears, and moose.  It was the perfect hunting rifle.





The first picture I took while I was moose hunting, and was a little bored waiting for Bullwinkle.  Notice the flint is well worn (but trusted) and the bevel is down.  The second one is in my back yard, and shows the flint bevel up.  You may see damage to the pan in this shot from the flint striking the pan.  The flint leather in both pics is from the cuff of a work glove.  The leather needs to be thick enough to mold itself to the nuances of the rough flint, grip the teeth of the jaws of the cock, and cushion the blow to the flint as it strikes the frizzen.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have just gone through this same issue with a swivel barrelled pistol I'm playing with.  the mainspring didn't have enough whack to tip the frizzens out of the way.  So I filed the top leaves of the two frizzen springs, first with a course rasp, then a single cut bastard file, then 80 grit, and finally, with 180 grit aluminum oxide cloth abrasive.
Now the lock sparks well, and the frizzens pop open as they should.

So again, if this were my project, I'd balance the springs by removing steel from the top leaf of the frizzen spring.  You can be quite radical here.  The frizzen spring only needs to hold the frizzen closed on the pan to keep the priming from disappearing, and also stiff enough to prevent bounce back or rebounding.  I think you'll find that that answers the problem.  I have no idea what that 1" dimension you have illustrated in a lot of your pictures is all about?

[Bob Gerard]

Did you try it with the feather spring removed?

[Darkhorse]

You might want to consider ordering a new mainspring also. I would think yours might be weak.

[rich pierce]

Not yet. Will give the no frizzen spring try tomorrow.

Also, I ordered the alternate cock available for this lock. It seems to orient the flint a little different to fizzen, it should be here later in the week. Will report on it later.

These things are sure a balancing act. Get the frizzen spring too weak and the frizzen rebounds. Best of luck. You’ve got an analytical mind and will figure it out.

[Pukka Bundook]

It still looks like the flint is hitting the frizzen far too low in the above phots, Foereter.

[rich pierce]

It still looks like the flint is hitting the frizzen far too low in the above phots, Foereter.

Agree but if move forward or a longer flint is used it digs up the pan. A real conundrum unless one bends the frizzen forward or replaced it. Bevel down would be my first fix. And, this same lock model works well for many. Inscrutable.

[Hungry Horse]

 I can’t be sure but from the pictures provided it seems the flint is striking the frizzen quite low. I have found this often creates a situation where the frizzen locks up before it completely opens. This can be addressed by a slight upward bending of the cock, or a slight rearward bending of the frizzen face. Both should be done hot. The polishing, and slight reshaping of the frizzen spring, and the contact point of the frizzen might be enough to get the frizzen to follow through. Good luck.

Hungry Horse

[Blacksmoke]

I still think that the flint is to far away from the frizzen face! I suggest a longer flint or move it forward.  If it contacts the shoulders of the pan select a narrower flint. I like the cutting edge of the flint to enter the pan as a general rule, but not to make contact with the bottom of the pan or the shoulders of the pan. My continuing 2 cents worth.  Hugh Toenjes

[smylee grouch]

Since the flint stops right at the bottom of the frizzen, would some very slight relief of the frizzen face right at that bottom point help the lock complete its cycle? Say only a few thousands with a stone to keep it smooth. 

[Daryl]

It still looks like the flint is hitting the frizzen far too low in the above phots, Foereter.

Way too low for me too, Richard.

[Bob Roller]

It still looks like the flint is hitting the frizzen far too low in the above phots, Foereter.

Way too low for me too, Richard.

Mismatched or miscalculated parts will guarantee a non functional  lock or anything else.
Bob Roller

[smylee grouch]

Sounds better. Thanks for the up date and detailed run down on your adventure. 

[Pukka Bundook]

I'd Still run it flat side up.

[alacran]

I'm not being negative, but it seems to me that you must be an engineer. Had you removed the frizzen spring at the outset, it would have told you that it was the culprit. Sometimes we tend to overcomplicate a problem. Always look for the simplest solution first. Eliminate them as the source of the problem before going on to more radical solutions. Just my opinion.

[Darrin McDonal]

First thing first.  It isn't positioned correctly in the jaws of the cock. Move your flint forward till it is almost touching the frizzen at 1/2 cock . Then lower it down and make sure it isn't hitting the bottom of the pan. Now try to spark it.
Also a major problem with people getting their lock to spark if the flint isn't  really tight in the cock!! Make sure it really tight.
Darrin

[rich pierce]

Foresterdj did you mean full cock where you said half cock?

Tumblers are designed to give maximum leverage when the cock is at rest, but springs give maximum power when released from more compression. I’m sure someone has graphed it out.

[Pukka Bundook]

Forester,
There is no such thing as upside down with a flint. As many work one way  as the other way.
Flat side up will keep the flint out the pan and get a Much longer stroke.
That's why I have been harping at you to turn it over  for the last while!

All the best,
Rich.