Kibler Colonial Build

[Johnny Danger]

Hello,

I bought this kit over a year ago and I finally decided to build it. I assembled the whole thing and now it's apart for carving/finishing. This is my first post and first build. I obviously have a lot of work ahead of me. I keep telling myself "It should be done by spring".

[Kevin]

Johnny D.,

Welcome to the ALR and for sharing your Kibler build project.  What caliber did you go with?

Kevin

[Johnny Danger]

Hello Kevin,

I went with .58.

[Mike Brooks]

I'd refer to originals for carving design.

[Johnny Danger]

Hello, Mike,

I thought I did without copying exactly... ?

[J.M.Browning]

Very Impressed a little of your own inspration is a good thing looks terrific !

[Elnathan]

I'd refer to originals for carving design.

A bit more specificity would be welcomed, I'm sure. Even with lots of originals to look at, it takes a lot of time to get an eye for what works and doesn't, and not everyone has decades of study to draw on...

Hello, Mike,

I thought I did without copying exactly... ?

Mr. Danger, I'm not very good with the finer points of carving, but my guess is that he is looking at the "banana peel" bit behind the cheekpiece. Longrifle carving is largely a provincial variant of Rococo design, and Rococo, while it certainly loves foliage, tends to be a lot more abstract than your design. Having those leaves curve back on themselves in the same way as your main C-scroll would be better, and instead of tapering to a point the would be better off ending in a volute or a spray of leaves (a little reverse curve at the ends of those leaves would also improve things, IMHO) Also, scrolls tend to widen rather than narrow towards the end.

Here is a random Nicholas Beyer from the museum to show what I am talking about: https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=6708.0


The pattern on the box lid is, being perfectly symmetrical, atypical of longrifle carving but there is precedent (albeit not on box lids), IIRC.

[Craig Wilcox]

Johnny, you have done some nice carving, especially on the patchbox lid.  Very easy on the eyes, good execution.

[Mike Brooks]

Hello, Mike,

I thought I did without copying exactly... ?

There is nothing wrong with copying exactly. It's how you learn to carve and design correctly.  Contemporary work always looks like contemporary work, which is fine if you like that sort of thing.
 Get some of the KRAs dvd's and you'll be able to see in detail the nuances of original carving. It was a real eye opener for me.
 There are a lot of new guys on here that will tell you everything you do "looks great". Those aren't always the guys you want to listen to. Listen to some of the old timers here and ask for a critique from them. Those are the guys you want to pay attention too. Unfortunately, many of them don't post here anymore.
 If you want some good carving advice show your design drawn on the stock before you carve it. Those with good carving experience would be happy to help you with your design before it's permanently carved in.
 That's all I got. I mean it as a learning aid, not to be offensive. Take it as you will.

[TDM]

Welcome to the forum Johnny. Please take the critiques in a positive manner. Your work looks very nice to me, but I’m not an accomplished carver. And never will be at my age.

[Johnny Danger]

Thanks for all of the info everyone.

Should I keep going or start over? Yes, I'm a little disheartened.

I remember someone looking for "stencils" and it seemed like everyone wanted that person to draw it himself. I drew a couple of carvings and kind of liked the simple one I came up with. I guess I could always file it smooth and start over. I just didn't want to build another "smooth" rifle. I think they look great, but I have nothing but time and enjoy it actually.

[Stoner creek]

You could always opt to go full incised carving there behind the cheek piece if you want. It was done a lot in the old days. That might give you a chance to explore your creative process and allow you to draw, ask for advice, and then modify. I salute you for your efforts and willingness to take good constructive criticism. There are a lot of great people on this forum that are willing to help and expect nothing more than improving you and your work.
 Leave the patchbox lid as is.
W

[Steeltrap]

Your carvings may not be “historically matching” but I think you should do with it what makes you happy. Your carving is very nice.

[Elnathan]

Thanks for all of the info everyone.

Should I keep going or start over? Yes, I'm a little disheartened.

I remember someone looking for "stencils" and it seemed like everyone wanted that person to draw it himself. I drew a couple of carvings and kind of liked the simple one I came up with. I guess I could always file it smooth and start over. I just didn't want to build another "smooth" rifle. I think they look great, but I have nothing but time and enjoy it actually.

That is a natural reaction, I think, but don't be too disheartened and don't pick up that rasp just yet. I think you are doing pretty well, overall. A lot of folks won't even try...

I really, really don't want to be the person giving you design advice, as I've only carved one rifle, about twenty years ago, which was mediocre at best, and my recent attempts at carving war clubs produced, um, mixed results...Having said that, how about something like this? It could probably be improved and finessed a bit (Ignore that little blob over at the 3 o'clock if you want -  I was thinking about what could be done with the extra wood there, and the ink I was using for visibility couldn't be erased.)


That keeps your original design more or less, reshapes your leaves, and improves the taper of your C-scroll, at least to my eyes. I'd leave off that inside volute that you've only drawn in, but that is just me. Hopefully someone who actually knows what they are doing will chime in...

In any case, one of the really nice things about relief carving is that you can rework and refine things as you go along - lots of room to fix mistakes, really. Easier than incised carving and much easier than checkering in that respect...

The cheekpiece moldings and the two volutes you did last night are quite nice, BTW.

[rich pierce]

Keep in mind we are the most persnickety bunch in the longrifle world and that you’ve carved a nice clean, pleasing design. That puts it in the top 5%, probably, of kit guns that get carved. The backbone C scroll is very traditional. Don’t sweat it. At rondy or on the range or anywhere that’s not packed with hard core disciples of early longrifles, you’ll get nothing but deserved praise.

[Mike Brooks]

It took me a dozen guns before I had carving that was fit to be seen in the light of day, so you're doing pretty good for the first gun.