Black Powder

[Jerry]

Which black powder burns cleaner, Swiss or Shutzen? Thanks, Jerry

[smylee grouch]

Most of the shooters I know will say as a general rule Swiss shoots cleaner.

[Bob McBride]

Scheutzen is the most godawfull dirty stuff you ever saw. Swiss is the cleanest burning to me. My 2 cents.

[Daryl]

In my BPCR, Swiss 1.5 shoots identically to GOEX 1F & 2F as to accuracy and fouling, which I find quite amazing.

[Daryl]

Scheutzen is the most godawfull dirty stuff you ever saw. Swiss is the cleanest burning to me. My 2 cents.

I've noticed no difference in my .50 or .69, Bob.
Interesting. In the .50, I had to use 90gr. 2F Schutzen and 10 ounce denim patch with .495" ball.(up 5 gr.)
In the .69, I use a .682" ball and 10 once denim. Now, for lube, I've used, WWWF + a tich of oil,
spit, WSOil and water: 10:1 as well as LehighValley Lube. They all seemed to shoot about identically
with those combinations. What I did find interesting other than having to use 5gr. MORE Schutzen than
GOEX in the .50, I had to increase the powder charge in the .69, to 110gr. on the measure from 85gr., weight
at that setting or 110gr. threw 113gr. 2F Schutzen. No difference in fouling, not in the bucket of water when cleaning.

[Bob McBride]

Interesting. Perhaps my observation was from only shooting that powder in my large bore smooth guns but I've never been as filthy from head to toe as when shooting Scheutzen. Admittedly my Scheutzen powder is some years old and I can get dirty clicking two matchsticks together. Maybe they cleaned it up. I'll defer to you on that.

[Daryl]

Can't say, Bob. Mine is only 2 or 3 years old.

[Clark Badgett]

Can't say, Bob. Mine is only 2 or 3 years old.

Mine is about 5 years old. It too burns dirty and hard. It gives lower velocities than my goex as well, it does shoot though and that’s a good thing.

[Dphariss]

Swiss.  And you can use a little less powder for a given velocity

[Daryl]

Swiss 1.5F is slightly more dense than GOEX powders. A measure that holds 78gr. 3F GOEX, holds 85gr. 1.5 Swiss.

[Clark Badgett]

One of these days I’m gonna have to try some Swiss.

[Bob Roller]

I tried Swiss back when I was shooting BPCR and found no advantage in using it and the fouling was or seemed to be like a thin crust.
If I ever do any more black powder shooting I will support the American products in powder and caps.
Bob Roller

[Marcruger]

My opinion is that Swiss makes less fouling, but it is harder fouling.  I prefer Goex for that reason. 

[Dphariss]

The plant where Goex is now made is not capable of making a quality sporting grade powder since it uses a roller press. Or so I was told by Mad Monk. It was meant for fuze and booster powder for the US military as a backup plant since it was critical to have BP. The plus is that they no longer use water contaminated with sulfur oxidizing bacteria as was done a Moosic.

[Mike Brooks]

Swiss 1.5F is slightly more dense than GOEX powders. A measure that holds 78gr. 3F GOEX, holds 85gr. 1.5 Swiss.

Nifty. I have never weighed it before. That should bring levels up to what the old BPC carried

[Pukka Bundook]

Mike,
Brett Gibbon's book on powder has details in it about this.

He also wrote that when he didn't have home-made powder  1 1/2 Swiss was as close as one could get to the old cartridge powder for the P '53 rifle musket.

Mods may clobber this as a bit new.  :-)

[hudson]

I agree with Marcruger I find Swiss cleaner but a hard glaze especially with heavy charges. With the one .54 I use at longer range I get slightly better group at 100 yards than Goex, but so little not worth it.

[Daryl]

I just did a little experiment between GOEX OE that has been in a horn for 'some ' time, against somewhat fresher Schutzen 2F & from a part can of Swiss 1.5F.
I used the same adjustable measure setting of 80gr. I filled the measure, then tapped it with a long brass ctg. case until it would settle no more, then re-filled and tapped until
even with the top surface. I was surprised at the outcome.
3F O.E. --------83.7gr.
2F Schutzen--89.7gr.
1.5F Swiss----89.4gr. Due to this being less than Schutzen, I thought perhaps evaporation of what moisture was in the Swiss, might have made it lighter.
So - I opened a fresh can of Swiss 1.5gr. and got: 89.4gr.
So-  I repeated the 2F Schutzen test and got: 89.8, thus virtually the same as the first test. It's quite dense, it seems.
I opened a fresh can of Schutzen 3F and repeated the test, same measure and method and got 89.6gr. ie:powder measure set at 80gr. mark.

[smylee grouch]

Interesting. Would the smaller granules of the 2f fill the same volume more than the larger granules of the 1&1\2f ?

[Daryl]

The 3F Schutzen vs. 2F Schutzen 'trial' should answer that. They were within .1 to .2gr. weight, so the same stricken measure weighed the same.
I would suggest that even though the 2F Schutzen weighed a couple 10th's more than 1.5 Swiss that they were very close in density.
Now, what might be interesting is a further comparison between 3F 2F and 1.5F Swiss.

[Mule Brain]

I find, that using the proper lube renders it to be a non issue. I shoot goex and schutzen 

[Daryl]

I think I should note again, I tapped the measure to settle the powder. I did note, though, that the Swiss powder did not settle as much
as the Schutzen nor the GOEX Old Enysford. This is likely due to the shinier grains of powder, packing better in the first 'throw'.  Thus my
test above, shows that when 'packing' the measure to it's limit, therefore exactly the same volume, the weights are almost identical. On
the other hand this also means that if simply throwing a stricken measure, then pouring that into the barrel, there will be MORE (a greater
volume) of Swiss than the other 'stricken' charges of different powder.
Shinier does not mean graphite to me. It means it is polished/tumbled more to make smoother granules. Any graphite I have seen (I have a
canister of powdered graphite) is dull. I suppose it does shine up when rubbed between two fingers, though.

[TDM]

I use Swiss, Schuetzen, and Goex. But my favorite is definitely Swiss.

[wolf]

goex is where my dough goes, not overseas if i have a say so. and BTW, all BP is dirty! if you use the right patch lube, dawn and water, it makes no difference anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Daryl]

I find the same WOLF, with EVERY powder I have used, due to the combinations I also use.
Rain or shine, high humidity, low humidity, no difference.