Black Powder

[hanshi]

Looking for a "clean" black powder is like looking for a skunk that sprays Versace.

I've used much more Goex than anything else and then "rebranded" powder by Goex.  I burned a good bit of Elephant - but we all have to settle for what we can get - a little Swiss (limited experience in the .32) and maybe something else I forgot.  If I can afford it and it works I'll use it.  And for the life of me I cannot actually tell a difference in the fouling left by the powders mentioned.

[Dphariss]

I gave a 16 bore rifle with a Nock patent breech. I have always used Swiss FF. I tried Schuetzen and it made flakes of fouling in the bore that stopped the rifle from firing until I “primed” the vent to put enough FFFF in the antechamber to make it go. Never tried Goex. And I would point out that back in the day, mid-19th c on, most of the serious target shooters used Curtis and Harvey Diamond Grain. Swiss is the closest thing to it. The specific gravity of the powder can help control the burn rate on a chemically fast powder (a little more Potassium Nirtate). Softer/less dense powder will burn a little faster but may not be as ballistically uniform. Powder that is pressed excessively and thus has a higher specific gravity can also exhibit wider velocity variations. Elephant fell into this trap with some of their lots. Or so Mad Monk told me.
Swiss will cause some strange fouling things at high loading levels. I have seen this in proving barrels and in shooting 120 gr of FFF in a 58. 140 gr of FF Swiss in the 16 bore is about as clean as one could expect with BP.  This BTW is about 32% of ball weight and gives 1600 fps +-. With 66 gr weight of FFF Swiss the Kibler Colonial in 54 makes 1650 +-. This will shoot flat enough for most hunting with a RB. I suspect that with 90 it would be around 1900.  Colonel Hanger mentioned that a Kentucky he acquired would use 1/2 ball weight of powder “without the slightest recoil”. I suspect this rifle would have been about 50 caliber. But would have to did and see if he mentioned the specific caliber bit he did state he never saw an American rifle larger than 28 to the pound IIRC. He served with the British Army during the American War for Independence.

[Daryl]

32% of ball weight for me would be 154gr. of powder. As a hunting load, I use 165gr. 2F GOEX which delivers roughly 1,550fps with the 482gr. ball.
There is zero fouling trouble for shot after shot. Even with non-lubricated ctgs. tight enough to give the same accuracy as patched balls, shot after shot
to a total of 10. Then a 'fouling cleaning' shot of 3 drams (82gr. 2F) and a wet patched ball, would allow me another accurate 10 paper ctg. shots. In those
ctgs. I was loading 165gr. 2F GOEX, same as a patched round ball hunting load.
When testing with the 165gr. 2F GOEX charge and wet-patched round ball, my shot to shot variation in 10 shots, was 8fps. This was in 1986 when that rifle was built(by Taylor).

[Dphariss]

32% of ball weight for me would be 154gr. of powder. As a hunting load, I use 165gr. 2F GOEX which delivers roughly 1,550fps with the 482gr. ball.
There is zero fouling trouble for shot after shot. Even with non-lubricated ctgs. tight enough to give the same accuracy as patched balls, shot after shot
to a total of 10. Then a 'fouling cleaning' shot of 3 drams (82gr. 2F) and a wet patched ball, would allow me another accurate 10 paper ctg. shots. In those
ctgs. I was loading 165gr. 2F GOEX, same as a patched round ball hunting load.
When testing with the 165gr. 2F GOEX charge and wet-patched round ball, my shot to shot variation in 10 shots, was 8fps. This was in 1986 when that rifle was built(by Taylor).

I calculated Forsythe’s trajectories some years back with his 14 bore rifle about the same as yours and he was apparently shooting FFF grade powder, Halls #2, and was getting a velocity very similar to yours and mine. Assuming the #2 is the same +- as Swiss #2.
My Nock breeched rifle does not foul badly with FF Swiss, no problems at all and I have never checked the standard deviation. Just enough to get a velocity.

He did say his rifle with a number 15 ball hardened with Mercury (!!) would shoot through and Indian Elephants head from side to side.
Guess I could run his trajectories with a more modern ballistics program but all of them are questionable with BCs that start with .0.

[Dphariss]

Looking for a "clean" black powder is like looking for a skunk that sprays Versace.

I've used much more Goex than anything else and then "rebranded" powder by Goex.  I burned a good bit of Elephant - but we all have to settle for what we can get - a little Swiss (limited experience in the .32) and maybe something else I forgot.  If I can afford it and it works I'll use it.  And for the life of me I cannot actually tell a difference in the fouling left by the powders mentioned.

Depends on the definition of “clean”.  Round ball guns are pretty forgiving but some powders in some rifles, bore sizes and charge weights can cause issues. Some 54s and a 58 I proved with Swiss sometimes causes issues. The 58 made some real hard white fouling. I proved it with FFF and its possible FF might not do that. Bill Knight said it was likely the burn rate of the powder, the charge weight and the bore size making for a perfect storm of temperature to give the white fouling. But I have been shooting 62 gr of FFF Swiss in a 40 and not significant fouling in 20 shots of so. All flintlocks.

[J.M.Browning]

I have no problems, complaint's of Schutzen black powder is dirty try a wet patch or one thing or another , I wonder if Boone had all this contemplation about shooting ?

[Daryl]

For the last year of monthly matches(I missed the summer-fishing), I've been using Schutzen 2F in my .69 target rifle (I don't hunt moose any more) & I found I had to
up my powder charge from 85gr. to 113gr. to get the same point of impact as the smaller charge of GOEX. Now, that might be just a coincidence with my eye sight as well.
The rifle shoots fine with that charge and I notice no more fouling than the very much smaller 85gr. GOEX load. That rifle doesn't foul, anyway. I use a 10 ounce denim patch
I measure at .021" or I use the 14 ounce denim I measure at .034". That one is tighter going in, but the same going down.
I found in chronographing my .69 just a few years back, all the way up to 165gr. of 3F GOEX or 165gr. 2F GOEX, the 2F gave a slightly higher velocity. When doing that test, I
was using either 12 ounce or 14 ounce denim. I think it was the 14ounce. I've lost that data, so I guess I'll have to redo it? Anyone want to help by doing the shooting? I'll run
the chronograph.