Considering a "kid build" with some existing parts

[Steeltrap]

I picked up this CVA percussion barrel so long ago I forgot where or why. I removed the CVA percussion nipple (at least I think it was me....mebby not). I have some existing parts such as DST and a buttplate, lock, and a few other parts.

The barrel has good rifling, but from sitting around many years there has been minor pitting in the barrel. However, having bought, reloaded for and shot many rifles older than 75 years the pitting in this I would describe as minor and should not affect accuracy.

So, I'm thinking of (since i don't own a lathe) sending it off, having the breech cut and a plug installed. I can pick up a stock blank, and the rest of the furniture. I'm not too focused on making a period correct rifle, just a functioning flintlock that a kid can hold up and shoot.

Does anyone have thoughts on using this CVA barrel at all? The twist seems to be 1-60, and when I have it cut down, it's likely to be about 28" long. The cost of having a breech plug installed (TOTW) would be: Install breech plug....$30, rethread barrel for breech plug $40, and the cost of the plug $15. The total would come to $85, plus two way shipping....say $15 each way (??). So the grand total of $120-$130.  Where a new barrel would run about $225.

Thoughts?

[Mike Brooks]

I have never owned a CVA rifle but have shot against many who did. They shoot really well. Not good enough to beat me though.

[Beaverman]

Go for it!, whatever it takes to get kids shooting a ML!

[ScottH]

Sounds like a good project. Use a quality a lock.

[Hungry Horse]

 A CVA is likely a 1 in 66 twist. I just fitted plugs in two barrels by hand, it’s not that hard and a lot cheaper than going to a machine shop. I’m retired and have plenty of time. My breechplugs are made from a grade 5 fine thread bolts, with a tang welded on them. A couple of fine thread taps one to start the threads and one to cut off to make a bottoming tap, probably were the most expensive part of the operation. I did buy a new file that cut better than my old one. Mistakes slow me down a little, but the second one was a breeze. This will put a few honey-do’s on hold.

Hungry Horse

[Steeltrap]

I've tapped more than my share of drill holes, but I'm a little concerned about the setup on this size of getting the threads straight.

It's a 50 caliber barrel so I'm guessing the plug size is 9/16" or 5/8"?

[Hungry Horse]

 If it’s a 15/16th barrel it’s probably 5/8ths. I would cut all the CVA stuff off and start fresh. Then you wouldn’t have to fool around with all their oddball engineered stuff. I just chucked the tap in the drill press to get it started straight, and hand turn it to get started, then I put a tap handle on it to cut the threads.
 My advice would be make it a little bigger than you think you should for a child. I’ve got one in my gun cabinet that my son could only use one year, because I made it to fit him then he got a growing spirt and outgrew it. There’s nothing more dangerous than an undersized kids gun. They often don’t realize how much they have grown. Good Luck.

Hungry Horse

[Steeltrap]

Well, after checking the price of the taps, (and also owning a drill press) I think I'll take on the breech plug threading. The worse thing that could happen is I have to cut off another inch of barrel.

Here's the original CVA nipple madness I'm going to cut off. And from my initial measurements, I think a 26" barrel will work. Plus that takes out the CVA barrel tennon cut that's existing now. Not that it matters but I don't want to thread the breech plug with a tennon right under one flat.

[mountainman70]

Good morning. I've done this with my drill press.
Here's how I do it.
After getting barrel and drill lined up by eye and levels , I get a 8 to 10 inch piece of ramrod the closest to bore size and put it in drill press.
Then dropping it into barrel bore move it up and down to check for alignment and smooth feed.
You might have to adjust barrel or vise to get it so no drag.
Then proceed to drilling.
With this operation you can't use too much lubricant.
I use transmission fluid.
Best of luck with your project.
Let us know how it goes.
Merry Christmas, etc
Dave F

[Steeltrap]

Thanks for the advice and the tips Gent's. This will be a 2024 winter project so I'll try to keep this post updated.

And, because of the "I can do that" attitude here......even a novice can become a machinist! (Well.....mebby not that)  I've cut down the barrel to prep for the breach plug.

[mountainman70]

One other thing. Chamfer the opening some to help bit start .
Good so far bro 👍

[Steeltrap]

One other thing. Chamfer the opening some to help bit start .
Good so far bro 👍

Good suggestion. I do thank you and all other posters for the assistance. My plan is to make it a "plain Jane" tool of the trade.....but the fit and finish won't be compromised.

Gotta order the drill bits and tap(s). I'll also pick up a stock blank for the shaping to begin.

[T*O*F]

Then dropping it into barrel bore move it up and down to check for alignment and smooth feed.
You might have to adjust barrel or vise to get it so no drag.
Then proceed to drilling.

Just make sure you have enough room to remove the rod and mount your drill bit without disturbing your setup.  Also, put your bit against the face of the breech plug and mark the bit for depth, using either a magic marker or tape.

[Steeltrap]

I’ve been thinking about buttplates as the one I have measures 4.5” x 1.650” wide. For a kid I’m thinking this may be too wide. OTOH it may “better” spread any felt recoil…even if it’s a light load.

The other plus is…..I already have it.

Any thoughts on that?

Also, I’m considering a hook breech and wedge key barrel setup. Only for the ease of a kid cleaning it after each range outing. Opinions?

[Steeltrap]

Then dropping it into barrel bore move it up and down to check for alignment and smooth feed.
You might have to adjust barrel or vise to get it so no drag.
Then proceed to drilling.

Just make sure you have enough room to remove the rod and mount your drill bit without disturbing your setup.  Also, put your bit against the face of the breech plug and mark the bit for depth, using either a magic marker or tape.

YES!!  It’s like replacing a 4” piece of straight copper water pipe….cut, cut …. UH OH!!!

[Steeltrap]

Well, after checking prices for a hook breech, that option is out. Junior will have to learn to clean while not banging up the wood and keep the cleaning solution from running all over the stock.

We all learn at some point!!

[Steeltrap]

Measuring the CVA .50 cal barrel shows the flat to flat distance of .925.

Now, the .50 cal bore measures (as far as my dial calibers show) .512 in diameter.

The recommended drill size for a 9/16-18 plug is .5156. (33/64).

So the difference in diameter is .0036, or only .0018 per side. To me, that just appears that the drill size will remove the rifling cut in the barrel. Then I could tap it from there.

A 5/8-18 drill size is .5781 or .0661 difference….033  per side.

At first blush it would appear that I should drill/tap for the 5/8” plug. I’m I thinking right or would the difference matter?

[Steeltrap]

   https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=40182.0 

Found a thread that shows the correct size plug to use.

[hudson]

I had an early cva the barrel had shallower groves and as I recall more than usual number. That barrel had a noticeable and provable higher velocity than a green mountain barrel on another rifle both 50 cal.with the same load, it won its share in competition. I might suggest lapping that barrel if it has light pitting.

[Steeltrap]

Thanks for the lapping suggestion. I’ll do that.

I’ve also came across (parts bin) an existing 3/4-16 breech plug. I pulled it from my 50 cal pistol. Then I came across a thread where a barrel piece was easily (well….) cut down & shaped into a hook breech. I’ve already laid out the pattern on the short barrel piece I cut off.

But I’m thinking of ordering a 5/8-18 plug as I leaves more barrel thickness than the 3/4.

[Steeltrap]

I took the barrel stub that I cut off and started the process of making a hook breech. I initially started using a Dremel and a steel cutting wheel. Aside from being noisy, messy, and not cutting all that quickly I changed to a hacksaw. Hacksaw was much better.

[Steeltrap]

Continuing to work on a hook breech (since it's not $100 and just my time).



I also came across a Mike Brooks "child gun build" that has provided me with some ideas for a child's build. https://app.photobucket.com/u/Gunmaker/a/94e543a8-2bf4-472b-88b3-28b23bf83d6f

[Steeltrap]

I have the hook breech about 98% ready. Now to get the breech plug and onto the next step.

I will say that filing the breech end of the barrel so that it's square proved to be a little more time consuming than I thought. But, on a cold rainy day.....I got time!





I also pulled out the CVA breech plug. But upon measuring it after I would have to cut off the CVA "stuff" the plug would get to be at best about 3/8" in depth. I've read that the plug should be just a tad over 1/2" in depth for safety purposes.

[Steeltrap]

Breech plug success!!  Well, half way there. Hole drilled and tapped. Need to FBT and then work on fitting the plug so timing is correct and fit inside is proper to seal. I applied anti-seize before screwing in the BP as well.

   

[mountainman70]

Looks like you on the way to getting it 👍 done
Cold rainy day here too
I cut dovetails in installed sights on l/r Tennessee rifle.
Keep it up bro
Best regards, Dave