Mounting a bayonet lug

[smart dog]

Hi,
Several folks over the years have asked how to position and mount a lug for a bayonet.  I will describe how the British did it on their King's pattern muskets.  On British muskets with full sized bayonets meaning the socket is about 4" long and the blade about 17", the lug or front sight (as it was referred to) was 2 1/8" back from the muzzle.  TRS provides a little rectangular lug with a curved bottom meant to be soldered or brazed to the barrel.  All the commercial repro simply solder a lug to the barrel.  Neither of those methods are correct.  The lug was shallowly dovetailed into the barrel and then brazed.  Here is how it was done except I solder the lug rather than braze it. The lug is about 1/4" wide and 3/8" long with a wider base that has dovetailed ends fore and aft.





I make the sight from mild steel, cutting away the excess and using a triangular file to make the dovetails.  Next I locate the position on the barrel.  The front of the lug should be 2 1/8" back from the muzzle.  To find the center line of the barrel, I put the barrel in my vise and place a level across the barrel tang at the breech.  I level the barrel horizontally in he vise.  Then I mark the position of the sight and balance the level at that position.  The center of the bubble marks the center of the barrel.





I mark the position and then cut horizontal lines with a hacksaw to begin the dovetailed slot in the barrel.  I don't measure the depth, just cut a few strokes for each line.




Then I file the dovetails in the barrel with a small triangular file that has one edge safed.



Once the sight fits, I flux the bottom of the sight and the barrel and lay a piece of low temp silver bearing solder on the edge of the sight base after tilting the barrel to one side.




Then I heat from below, drawing the solder under the base to the lower edge.

 



Finally, I file the base flush with the barrel and clean up the solder.  The sight will eventually be filed a little thinner and lower.  It appears exactly like the originals.







dave

[Ed Wenger]

Well done tutorial, Dave…, thanks!    Best,

      Ed

[lexington1]

Very good information. I wish I would have seen it two days ago. I made one and put it on my 2nd Model Bess. I measured from an original that I have, but I didn't make a flat for it, but just soldered it with a concave base. Now I know!

[Dwshotwell]

Thanks for sharing that Dave.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Thanks for looking and commenting guys.  Keep in mind I am describing how it was done on a British Brown Bess.  On French muskets and Ferguson rifles, the lug is on the bottom because there is a separate front sight.  However, the rest of the procedure is the same allowing for the size of the socket.  Make sure your bayonet slides back far enough such that at least 1/8" of barrel extends from the front of the socket and the rear of the socket has some clearance between it and the end of the stock.  Don't have the bayonet butt against the stock even if it has a nose cap. The bayonet should fit snugly on the tapered barrel with no rattle and it is that snug fit that takes the force of the bayonet being driven into its target.  The lug does not take all the force. It is in removing the bayonet from its target that the lug can take a lot of force especially if the blade is stuck in something like bone.  Here is a well fitted bayonet.







On TRS cast bayonets, I usually peen the sides of the upper part of the "Z" slot down a little narrowing the slot.  Then I file the end of the slot into a slight taper so the barrel lug snugs into the slot more tightly when fully seated.  I want the bayonet to need a rap with the palm of your hand to unseat it when removing.

dave

[Adrie luke]

Dave

I want to show you this one.

[alex e.]

Thank you.
Impeccable timing .
As this is next on my rifle shoppe mess Bess.
How deep is your dovetail?
My barrel measures  .10 or less near the muzzle .

[lexington1]

You are right Dave. I went and looked at my Brown Besses and the ones that are not degraded by rust or patina definitely show them being fit in as you described.

[smart dog]

Thank you.
Impeccable timing .
As this is next on my rifle shoppe mess Bess.
How deep is your dovetail?
My barrel measures  .10 or less near the muzzle .

Hi Alex,
I actually have no idea.  It is probably a little less than 1/16".  It is very shallow. It also helps to use a needle file sized triangular file with a safed edge to cut the tiny dovetails. I suspect the setter uppers filed a shallow flat groove and then formed the dovetails using a small cold chisel rather than a file.  I am going to try that on the next Bess.

dave 

[silky]

Dave,

Thanks so much for putting this together.  I'll be using it soon!

- Tom

[Justin Urbantas]

Thanks Dave.  A Bess is definitely on my to do list.

[smart dog]

Hi Justin,
If you do make a King's pattern musket these threads will help.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/making-a-pattern-1756-long-land-british-musket.173129/
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/building-the-kings-muskets-and-a-bit-more.167825/
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/turning-a-pedersoli-bess-into-a-dublin-castle-short-land-musket.138872/

And this video:


dave

[JasonR]

Hi Dave. Wondering if hammering with a cold chisel to raise the dovetail considering the extreme thinness just below the muzzle wall is risky to the bore? Thank you

[smart dog]

Hi Jason,
As long as you are driving the chisel more along the barrel to raise an edge rather than down, you should have no problem.  I mortise front sights frequently on thinner barrels with no trouble.











Just keep the dovetailed slot shallow.  I've not tried doing the job with a cold chisel because I do it so easily and quickly with files.  One caveat however, I don't think a chisel would work well on Pedersoli or Miroku barrels if you are using one in your project.  The steel they use is very tough.

dave

[JasonR]

Thanks Dave

[smart dog]

Dave

I want to show you this one.

Hi Adrie,
I have TRS castings for one of those.  I intended to use it on an officer's fusil until I found out that they were probably never used on those guns.  As Joe Puleo wrote, an officer showing up with one of those on his gun would have been mocked by the sergeants and ranks.  They were for civilian sporting purposes to make the hunting gun into a hunting sword.

dave