Heating Steel for Forging (a simple trigger)

[silky]

Good afternoon,

Total newbie basics question, if you don't mind. I have zero experience with forging...

Using a propane torch, about how long does it take to heat a piece of 1/8" steel in a vise to start forming into a trigger?  And how do you apply the heat? I have the great step-by-step from the tutorials section, but so far I'm not able to get the steel hot enough to work; it's a piece I picked up at the hardware store labeled as "welding steel." Am I using the right tools and materials?

You can't hurt my feelings by explaining it like I'm a child!

Thanks!

- Tom




 

[rich pierce]

I cold forge simple triggers from mild steel. No heat is necessary. I put a piece in the vise, also supported from below so it does not slip downward. I use a ball-peen hammer to cold forge the “shoe” then cut the body of the simple trigger out of the stock. 1/8” flat stock works but then the body of the blade needs to be thinned. Flat stock about 0.090”-0.100” is better.

12 gauge steel sheet would be my choice.  It’s 0.104” thick.  https://fastmetals.com/products/12-ga-1046-nom-hot-rolled-sheet-commerial-quality-astm-a1011

I’m going to try some 14 gauge too. It’s about 0.075”. Saves thinning but the perming would have to be more careful. https://fastmetals.com/products/14-ga-0747-nom-hot-rolled-sheet-commerial-quality-astm-a1011

[silky]

Thanks a lot, Rich; I just ordered a sheet of that 12 gauge from the link you posted.  It's going to be a simple trigger so your approach sounds like the best bet and now I won't burn down the garage.

I'm guessing the stuff I was trying to forge is pretty hard -- I can whack it pretty hard in the vise and it doesn't deform at all.

Thanks again!

- Tom

[David Rase]

My first couple of simple triggers I forged were made from 1/8" mild (1018) steel.  Like Rich, I cold forged them.  As I progressed in my building journeys, I have moved on to using thinner stock, not only for triggers, but for patchboxes, thimbles and entry pipes.  You have to remember that back in "the day", material was expensive and labor was cheap so many of these builders were minimalists while still building a quality product in a workman like manner.
David

[David Rase]

Here is a link to an ALR tutorial on forging a trigger. 
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=24661.0
David

[silky]

My first couple of simple triggers I forged were made from 1/8" mild (1018) steel.  Like Rich, I cold forged them.  As I progressed in my building journeys, I have moved on to using thinner stock, not only for triggers, but for patchboxes, thimbles and entry pipes.  You have to remember that back in "the day", material was expensive and labor was cheap so many of these builders were minimalists while still building a quality product in a workman like manner.
David

Great point. It's easy to lose sight of the historical context when we have all these materials easily available.  My current project is a musket built for militia use leading up to the Revolution; your point supports my plan for a simple, flush sideplate, sheet brass buttplate, trigger guard with minimal ornamentation, etc.  I have always liked the simple guns because they reflect the times and values of those who owned them.

And thanks -- that is the tutorial I was looking at.  I assume the cold forging uses the same techniques minus the heat?

Thanks, David.

- Tom

[Dave B]

The tutorial is right on. Note the size of his hammers, he is not using an 8oz hammer bigger is better when hammering metal. Most steel is soft to start but it never hurts to anneal it before working it. Cold rolled metal has some work hardening in it. The tutorial on annealing is help full. Here is a discussion about it not a tutorial but worth the look.https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10715.msg102003#msg102003

[Spalding]

You’d have a hard time getting 1/8” or thicker steel red hot with that torch. I have this one and along with the yellow canister Mapp Pro gas, it gets hot enough to get steel red hot and also will silver solder and do light brazing.
Not up there with an oxy-acetylene torch though.
Bob

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

In my experience, it is impossible to get steel red hot with a propane torch, when holding it protruding 1/8" out of the jaws of a machinist's vise.  The vise steals the heat away from the metal faster than it comes up to temperature for forging.  So I forged the trigger steel cold, clamping it in the vise so that only about 3/32" protruded out of the jaws.   As the shoe formed, I moved the steel a little more at a time out of the jaws and forged it flat to form the trigger shoe.  Here's an example, on a A. Verner effort...click on the picture twice to enlarge to full screen!

[JH Ehlers]

I prefer to cut a trigger out of thicker mildsteel stock, 3/8 would work. I can do it quicker than forging.

[David Rase]

I prefer to cut a trigger out of thicker mildsteel stock, 3/8 would work. I can do it quicker than forging.

That is an option, as is soldering on a trigger shoe vs. forging it.  Many ways to skin a cat.  I more often than not end up skinning it the hardest way possible.
David

[dadybear1]

great advises all--nothing for me to add!!!!!!

[Pukka Bundook]

A trigger can be hammered out cold faster than you can write describing it.
Its a real pleasant and easy part  to make.

Best,
R.

[JasonR]

Rich seems every time I cold swage out my trigger shoes with thinner stock I tend to fray the edges of the shoe to my dismay. Most of my trigger shoes end up being too narrow for my liking. Would like to fix that and get a wider shoe just haven't mastered it yet.

[rich pierce]

Rich seems every time I cold swage out my trigger shoes with thinner stock I tend to fray the edges of the shoe to my dismay. Most of my trigger shoes end up being too narrow for my liking. Would like to fix that and get a wider shoe just haven't mastered it yet.

Try smaller blows of the hammer, more evenly spaced along the face as you create a wider pad. Then do the same carefully if you are rounding the pad. Also switching to a wider, rounder hammer as you finish up is useful. Most ball peen hammers are too pointy on the smaller face. I round both faces a lot on ball peen hammers dedicated to cold and hot forging.

[J.M.Browning]

You could use embers I have heated RA 330 , HX material till it's not self supported.

[smylee grouch]

I agree that the vice is too much of a heat sink when using a propane torch. I've made about a dozen of these triggers and tried the torch for the first one and realized it was just not going to work. Cold is the way to go. JMHO

[Taylorz1]

Before getting bigger and better torches and a forge I would cut the trigger out to rough shape so there is less mass to heat then hold the trigger in needle nose pliers to reduce heat sink and heat with a propane or mapp torch. A quick clamp in the vise then start peening. I like it better than forging cold especially if im thinking of adding a twist or something to the tip. 

[Hungry Horse]

 Good grief, ol’Hershel is barely in his grave, and already some are not taking advantage of his knowledge and videos. Get his video, that’s what I did.

Hungry Horse

[Dphariss]

I like to cold forge triggers if thats the design needed It lets me connect with the past. And its a skill. I also anneal the trigger from time to time but I don’t try to form it hot..
Sometimes I will machine one out with my mill. Especially set trigger parts.
As Dave stated material back in the day was expensive. Labor was cheap. Jay Close did a series in Muzzle Blasts years ago   “The Apprentice’s Notebook” and one lesson covered cold forming triggers.
Below is a SS trigger and I machined and peaned it. Started with stock that was right thickness for the “blade” if the trigger then machined as needed for the other trigger parts and thin it so its thinner behind the “shoe” then  peaned the “shoe” out wider. The rest is mostly done with saw and file.

[silky]

Thank you all for the tips and techniques.  Like David said, there are lots of ways to skin a cat and hearing them is very helpful.

- Tom

[Nordnecker]

I agree with others here. I prefer a smaller ball peen hammer for this. To me, it’s better to tap the metal many, many times than it is to try to move it quickly with a heavier hammer. The mass of the vise helps a lot. If you have a small vise mounted to a flimsy bench top, it won’t work as well as a solidly mounted vise. It also helps if you really tighten the jaws so the workpiece won’t slip down as you tap on it.
Another thing I learned is- the location of the shoe in relation to the upper, hidden part or pivot of the trigger can greatly affect the action of the trigger. It also changes the location of the trigger to the lock/ sear. This can result in a longer/ shorter length of pull.

[Elnathan]

If you are going to use a propane or MAPP torch for heat, you should pick up a couple of firebricks. Put one on top of the other to form an L, and place whatever you are trying to heat right at the angle, so that the heat will be trapped and reflected back at the piece instead of being dissipated behind it...You will save a lot of gas, time, and aggravation. If you want to get fancy you can try to hollow some bricks out into a one-, two-, or three-brick forge, but just a couple loose bricks has worked best for me and I've done a lot of simple heat-treating of blades out to 3-4", annealed 1/8" brass while swaging out buttplates, and other jobs that would be otherwise impossible with a simple torch with a couple bricks stacked on each other to forma heat pocket.