Barrel occlusion?

[Steeltrap]

When I cut down this CVA barrel I have, I also cut out a "chunk" to make a hook breech setup. That worked out fine....so as I am moving along I got my stock yesterday and of course, am making the barrel channel a bit deeper so I can line up my barrel rib.

When I cut the barrel for the hook breech, I kept the piece I was going to work on, and tossed the remaining piece aside never giving it a second look.

So now that I'm working on the stock, I took the piece that was tossed\set aside and was using it for my gauge. Then I looked at where I cut\dissected the barrel and it gave me pause. This section that I cut out was the closest to the breech....which would have the most pressure.

I'm thinking the barrel should be safe to shoot as I don't see any anomolies in the barrel....and it was a used barrel.

Any thoughts or input?

[Roger B]

New barrels are expensive,  but cheaper than funerals or disability. I know new barrels are expensive,  but I wouldn't use that one for any amount of money.
Roger B.

[J Shingler]

It had one inclusion so why would you only think it was the only one? Now worth the time spent building up a custom build to always be thinking "what if there are more". What if it let's go and knocks out you or your buddy.  Not worth it to me.

Jeff

[Ky-Flinter]

That's pretty scary.  You could have the barrel tested (Ultrasonic nondestructive testing (NDT)) but that would likely cost more than a new barrel.

Ron

[Steeltrap]

Well, I guess it's an opportunity to go with a 45 Cal since this will be a youth rifle. All the work I did to fabricate a hook breech may be out the door as the tang was made from the CVA barrel which is slightly less in diameter than a 15/16.

My stock is already cut for a 15/16 (the CVA fit fine) so I can't go smaller. I don't know how much heavier the 45 will be vs the 50. Had I known this (or caught this) before I would go with a smaller barrel than 15\16ths.

But, I'm around to consider the options.   

[Jim Kibler]

Wow!  Don't use it.

[Steeltrap]

Well.....after my initial "oh shucks" (Actually words similar to that) I started to think (always dangerous) and surf the web a bit.

My thinking is if I were to plan this from the start, I'd go with a 45 cal (that's the minimum legal for deer in Pa)...and if I went with a 45 cal I'd likely go with a smaller barrel for the weight savings. (Albeit, I don't know the weight difference....but there has to be a difference).

Then I was thinking, since I'm making a smaller version.....could I still do this with the existing stock and the existing work I've done for the hook breech?

The hook breech "issue" would be: Even though I could use the hook\plug that I fabricated, the problem may be on the hook tang. I filed a grove in the tang for the hook to lock into...and if I went to a 13/16th barrel from a 15/16th barrel, I'd have to remove about .055 of metal from the top tang...and right now I don't know how much metal will remain from that point, to the top of the "underneath" grove.  I may just need to acquire another tang hook....or I could make another one. I have the experience.    Of course, a 7/8th barrel could always be an option.

I took a quick look at the stock, and I think I could still use it going with a 13\16 barrel. I grabbed my old T\C half stock, and lined up the bottom of the T\C barrel channel with the bottom of the stocks RR hole. I took this pic below. This will require cutting a new barrel channel (no big deal) and drilling a RR hole....something I've not done before but I'm sure I could handle.

This pic doesn't show the butt end, but there's plenty of wood on that side as well.
 

[Joe S.]

Makes you wonder how many barrels are out there like that? You would think part of QC would be NDT before a batch of barrels goes out the door

[john bohan]

I wonder how many people are out there shooting or hunting with something like that.

[Frank]

I had a friend with a CVA Kentucky rifle that the barrel burst on him after about 5 shots. He was lucky and just got a few scratches on his arm. It was a kit gun that he brought from the Patch and Ball gun shop in San Diego. He took it back and was given a replacement kit.

[Beaverman]

Was that a Spanish barrel?

[JTR]

I had a friend with a CVA Kentucky rifle that the barrel burst on him after about 5 shots. He was lucky and just got a few scratches on his arm. It was a kit gun that he brought from the Patch and Ball gun shop in San Diego. He took it back and was given a replacement kit.

Patch and Ball gun shop in San Diego! I bought a few guns from them!
Long gone now, and 805 freeway running through where it was.... 

[J.M.Browning]

I would not consider going forward with the CVA barrel - buy a quality barrel you will have overall better value.

[mikeyfirelock]

You say you could use a 13/16 barrel ……I’d do so …get a new one from a reputable maker ….might have to glue some shims in the sides  ( and perhaps the bottom) of the barrel channel but you’ll probably have to thin the stock anyway and
 Carefully  cutting the sides will produce those thin slabs to use for that. Get a breechplug that’s sized to the breech in the barrel you’ll use.   You may have to modify it if need be, but probably will work well without much change. ( if any).  Save the old barrel and make  Sights and loops and odd stuff out of it.
( don’t ask me how I know this stuff.)
mikeyfirelock.  ( made every mistake that can be made….most of them twice)

[David Rase]

I had a friend with a CVA Kentucky rifle that the barrel burst on him after about 5 shots. He was lucky and just got a few scratches on his arm. It was a kit gun that he brought from the Patch and Ball gun shop in San Diego. He took it back and was given a replacement kit.

When I was stationed in San Diego at 32nd street, I bought my first muzzleloader, a Thompson Center kit from the Patch and Ball gun shop on El Cajon Blvd in 1976.  $125.00.  I remember bringing the kit to the ship I was stationed on.  When I got to the quarter deck, the watch ask me what I had, I showed him the kit.  After looking at it he thought it was just a replica and that you can't shoot it so he let me take it on board.
David

[Steeltrap]

Here's the part where God is looking after me. What are the chances that I cut off the piece of barrel....then decide to take that piece and make a hook-breech.....then when I cut the barrel length wise to make the tang, I cut through the exact flat of the barrel (a 1/8 chance) and it reveals this occlusion? And people say there isn't a God.

Ok, I've thought about doing the shim thing.....but I'm not sure if I like that Idea. I've fixed my other mistakes on my other Flinters shimming one thing or another, but I don't know if I want to start out with a known fix.

I think I have enough wood remaining (as I stated above) to just "start over" using the existing piece of wood.

Now, for barrel size, I have 2 options. I want to go with a 45 cal. My options are 13/16 or 7/8. If I go with 13/16 I will not be able to use my fabricated tang breech. The grove that I cut for the hook has .150 thickness of metal (from grove to top...see pic). If I go with a 13/16 I would need to remove .056 of metal, thus leaving only .094 (thousands) left under where the hook connects. If I use a 7/8 barrel I will have .125 metal remaining after I file the octagon to fit the smaller barrel. (The CVA is .925 from flat to flat)

The weight difference between the 13/16 and 7/8, both 42" is one lb. And I'm cutting the barrel to 30 inches, so it will end up a weight difference of less than a pound.  So, I think the 7/8 will be the best choice. (I have a pile of time in that $@%^^ hook breech!!)

If you see flaws in my thinking, please post your thoughts. Thanks!

[Frank]

I had a friend with a CVA Kentucky rifle that the barrel burst on him after about 5 shots. He was lucky and just got a few scratches on his arm. It was a kit gun that he brought from the Patch and Ball gun shop in San Diego. He took it back and was given a replacement kit.

When I was stationed in San Diego at 32nd street, I bought my first muzzleloader, a Thompson Center kit from the Patch and Ball gun shop on El Cajon Blvd in 1976.  $125.00.  I remember bringing the kit to the ship I was stationed on.  When I got to the quarter deck, the watch ask me what I had, I showed him the kit.  After looking at it he thought it was just a replica and that you can't shoot it so he let me take it on board.
David

I bought my first muzzleloader there in 1976. A Thompson Center Hawken kit. Also bought a Numrich Arms Minuteman kit. I was also in the Navy and stationed at the Naval Electronics Laboratory Center at Point Loma. Spent many hours at the Patch and Ball talking to Bill Bracken. He always had a pot of coffee brewing. Bill was a wealth of knowledge and I was just starting out.

[oldtravler61]

  After 30 plus years in Q.C. what a lot of people don't understand. Only about ten to fifteen percent of the product gets a thorough inspection.
That estimate is also based on how much product is on the order.
  Now the bad thing  for me is that I can see flaws in everything I look at.
  Especially my own...

[BOB HILL]

Don’t use this barrel. You have been blessed by this warning when you cut into it!
Bob

[Pete G.]

That picture makes my stomach hurt 😞

[Mike Brooks]

COOL BEANS MAN!

[davec2]

David, Frank,

I had no idea there were so many of us at 32nd Street interested in muzzleloaders !!  I was in and out of port there as the DCA on the USS John Paul Jones, DDG 32, for three years and then went to be an instructor at the Surface Warfare School in Coronado.  Spent many an afternoon at Patch & Ball and then driving way out east on the Highway 8 to find open country to shoot in.  Too bad I didn't know you guys were in town. 

Best,

DaveC2

[Bob Roller]

The occlusion is no illusion and not confusion so the scrap pile must be the conclusion ;

Bob Roller