Author Topic: Stock profiles....  (Read 2397 times)

Offline Ravenshurst

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Stock profiles....
« on: February 15, 2024, 06:59:37 PM »
Good day all.
Can anyone point me to an online pictorial reference of various stock profiles?  Or post a pic/scan of same?  I am trying to learn the differences between, for instance, Bethlehem/Moravian, “early Virginia’, early Lancaster......
I currently can’t afford a squillion dollar book, so I need some online side by side pics.  I am a kinda visual person.
Thank you so much.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2024, 07:28:21 PM »
Just imagine how hard it was for us before the internet. This is not a cheap hobby to participate in. Buying books is probably the cheapest aspect of it. Knowledge is power. Books you need pop up here all the time for far less than I paid for them. That being said, Google whatever school you're looking for, something is liable to pop up.
look up websites by the best makers. Kettenburg, Martin, etc. are excellent resources.
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Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Elnathan

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2024, 08:04:27 PM »
The only quick guide I know of off the top of my head is in Kaufmann's Pennsylvania-Kentucky Rifle book, and 1) it is very simplistic and incomplete and 2) doesn't seem to be on the web. In any case, stock profiles as a guide are going to be tricky for a couple reasons. First, because the differences in basic profile between schools can be rather subtle - an awful lot of guns look at first glance like a Lancaster, particularly after the Revolution. Second, profiles change over time - Berks county guns start off straight-stocked, and grow a Roman nose, for example. Finally, guns from the same school can sometimes differ quite a bit - the Moravian shops produce at least three separate profiles types that I can think of (straight-combed pronounced step-wrists like the Lion and Lamb, the Oerter profile, and the Lancaster-ish Albrecht gun) over a short period or at the same time (and maybe by the same people...) So even if there was one it might not be as helpful one would think.

Two online sources may be helpful:

Our own online museum:
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?board=21.0

Erik Kettenburg's online articles have a lot of photos of both Moravian and later Northampton/Lehigh Valley area rifles.
http://www.erickettenburg.com/article-index.html

As a postscript, I've spent about the price of a good custom rifle on books over the years - for about 50-60 volumes, at a guess - and have kind of gotten fed up with an industry that seems determined to market only to the kind of people who can afford to buy 10k+ antiques on a whim. A source for interlibrary loans and a good scanner are an acceptable substitute, though.
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

Offline Gaeckle

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2024, 08:19:12 PM »
Depending on where you live, you could take a class. Learn the basics first, then the hard stuff later

Offline Cory Joe Stewart

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2024, 09:15:26 PM »
The problem is there is also no one book to get.  The better books are highly specialized.  But books are tools and like tools you can build your collection over time. 

Good knob mountain muzzleloading.  There are a lot of images of stock profiles and since they are literally just the profile you get a good view of the shaping.  The images are only from the lock back to the butt though.

Cory Joe Stewart

Offline reddogge

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2024, 10:22:01 PM »
I have a couple of squillion dollar books but I bought them in the early 80s so they were only a gazillion dollars.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2024, 01:17:49 AM »
What's a few squillion anyway? It's just money. :P
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Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline mikeyfirelock

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2024, 03:45:26 AM »
If you don’t belong to a club, see if there’s on in your area and go to a match.   You’ll see a lot of different rifles and meet a lot of people who will be more than willing to let you see and handle their rifles, and they will be more than happy to have you join their ranks……an excellent way to get  a lot of ideas and benefit from others experience . In addition you’ll meet some who are builders and will be more than willing to help you along.   If not a member of the NMLRA, then join. Muzzle Blasts , their magazine is a source of much information .
mikeyfirelock
Mike Mullins

Offline Ravenshurst

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2024, 06:00:34 PM »
Gentlemen, thank you all for your replies.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2024, 06:44:33 PM »
If you don’t belong to a club, see if there’s on in your area and go to a match.   You’ll see a lot of different rifles and meet a lot of people who will be more than willing to let you see and handle their rifles, and they will be more than happy to have you join their ranks……an excellent way to get  a lot of ideas and benefit from others experience . In addition you’ll meet some who are builders and will be more than willing to help you along.   If not a member of the NMLRA, then join. Muzzle Blasts , their magazine is a source of much information .
mikeyfirelock
You're describing iowa in 1980. That scenario just doesn't exist here anymore. There are no more clubs in most areas, except out east of the Mississippi
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Online Spalding

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2024, 07:16:02 PM »
Yep, I belong to a small club, usually 10-15 at our monthly shoots.
Always thought it should be called the imported cap lock shooters club.
Great bunch of guys and we have a good time, but me, another fellow who’s built a couple Kiblers, and one other are the only who shoot flint.

Bob
« Last Edit: February 16, 2024, 10:18:52 PM by Spalding »

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2024, 08:09:59 PM »
If you don’t belong to a club, see if there’s on in your area and go to a match.   You’ll see a lot of different rifles and meet a lot of people who will be more than willing to let you see and handle their rifles, and they will be more than happy to have you join their ranks……an excellent way to get  a lot of ideas and benefit from others experience . In addition you’ll meet some who are builders and will be more than willing to help you along.   If not a member of the NMLRA, then join. Muzzle Blasts , their magazine is a source of much information .
mikeyfirelock
You're describing iowa in 1980. That scenario just doesn't exist here anymore. There are no more clubs in most areas, except out east of the Mississippi

Yep.  Better shut up before I get in trouble.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2024, 08:10:43 PM »
In the "OLD DAYS" I would buy any and all drawings of muzzleloading rifles that I could find. I would use them as my "guide" to cut out the profiles on a plank and start by building from there. I would buy books that would show the details of the different "schools" of flintlocks that were published at the time. No easy way around it if you can't handle or see an original. Good luck with your adventure!
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2024, 08:38:37 PM »
I have a couple of squillion dollar books but I bought them in the early 80s so they were only a gazillion dollars.

My 3 go to books are Major Ned Roberts (The muzzle loading caplock rifle) and Walter Cline's (The muzzle loading Rifle,Then and Now).
E,M.Farris who was one of the founders of the NMLRA gave his 2 copies in 1954 I think.Another favorite read with fine color pictures is about Anerican Percussion Schuetzen rifles by Hamilton&Rowe and the fine color pictures it has and are much appreciated.
Bob Roller

Offline bluenoser

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2024, 09:12:12 PM »
Like many here, I am not blessed with the opportunity to view and handle originals.  I have been able to study a few on display in seminars  at a couple NMLRA National Rendezvous, but that is about it.  I do have a pretty nice library consisting of Shumway publications and others dealing with specific makers, regions and schools.  Those books are valuable assets but, when it comes to studying the architectural and decorative intricacies, the internet is, by far, my most valuable resource.  There are tens of thousands of high resolution images of pieces from all schools and from all regions free for the downloading.  Often, detailed descriptions are also included.  I have no idea how many thousand images and descriptions I have in my digital library.  They are sorted by state or region and sub-sorted by builder.  There is also a section containing guns by many of our contemporary makers.  In addition, there are folders dealing with specific features such as patch boxes, carving in various places, aging (natural and applied) and other subjects.

The resources are there and they are free of charge.  The images can be blown up, cropped and manipulated in other ways to clearly show details.  Are they as good as handling an original?  No, but they are a heck of a lot more useful than the average picture in a book.  You just need to take the initiative to build a library tailored to your interest.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2024, 09:36:40 PM by bluenoser »

Offline flatsguide

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2024, 12:29:09 PM »
Good thing he’s not into British rifles and guns, the cost of those books will bankrupt a small country.
Cheers Richard

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2024, 04:29:13 PM »
 These may help, they are done by Eric VonAschwege, a member here, they are beautifully done and are suitable for framing.

    Tim C.

   https://www.vonaschwegeflintlocks.com/plans.html

Offline Goo

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2024, 05:47:30 PM »
Good day all.
Can anyone point me to an online pictorial reference of various stock profiles?  Or post a pic/scan of same?  I am trying to learn the differences between, for instance, Bethlehem/Moravian, “early Virginia’, early Lancaster......
I currently can’t afford a squillion dollar book, so I need some online side by side pics.  I am a kinda visual person.
Thank you so much.

Dont Worry too much, It`s like when I was interested in antique motorcycles at first you could afford them but then all the rich people ran the prices up.  If you live long enough the prices of all this stuff will drop because young people cant afford to get into this hobby and the grand kids have no interest.
Opinions are expensive. Rich people rarely if ever voice their opinion.

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2024, 06:27:06 PM »
   The KRA ( Kentucky Rifle Association ) has all kinds of CDs on different styles an schools. Check them out because they are very detailed. Also depending on where your located you could attend one of the long rifle shows.
 Also try Track of the Wolf or Log Cabin shop for drawings.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2024, 06:53:24 PM »
   The KRA ( Kentucky Rifle Association ) has all kinds of CDs on different styles an schools. Check them out because they are very detailed. Also depending on where your located you could attend one of the long rifle shows.
 Also try Track of the Wolf or Log Cabin shop for drawings.
Yep, KRA cds are the best resource ever. I usually recommend them but forgot.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline mountainman

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2024, 08:25:39 PM »
Here is a neat little booklet by Ronald G. Gabel that kind of explains it in a nutshell, neat little book in b&w photos, and some map photos that explains the development of these rifles. Just looking at the front cover is a pretty quick rundown of what each area could have represented, and the architecture of each school. I can't remember where I obtained this copy but I had it for a number of years, I don't if they're still available or not.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2024, 08:30:06 PM by mountainman »

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2024, 01:59:24 AM »
Love the dates assigned to those rifles.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline smart dog

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2024, 02:15:38 AM »
Hi Ravenhurst,
Mike Brooks and Oldtraveler61 have the best solution save you going to museums and collections and looking at the originals.  Profiles only give you the rudimentary idea of a style of long rifle.  You asked for photos, well to describe any style or school effectively requires many, many photos from different angles.  Most books by and for collectors don't provide the views of details that makers need to see.  There are a few that do and the RCA series is one, and David Hansen's book is another.  However, the KRF CDs offer superb color photography that can be zoomed in to see intricate details and provide many detailed views of individual rifles.  They may be your best resource and they are not expensive. 

dave
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Offline tooguns

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2024, 01:19:08 AM »
Love the dates assigned to those rifles.
You're right, mike so I removed it.
It is best to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove any and all doubt....

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Stock profiles....
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2024, 06:58:17 PM »
Love the dates assigned to those rifles.
You're right, mike so I removed it.
You didn't have to do that. It's always good to remember how far we have come with knowledge of these old guns since the 60's.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?