Double set triggers

[joe74]

Kind of new to double triggers.I just think about touching the front trigger and it goes off.Anybody tell me witch way to adjust the screw to apply more pressure to the front trigger?

[Nate McKenzie]

On most DST triggers you screw it in for lighter pull and back it out for heavier pull.

[Daryl]

Yes as Nate said - screwing it the wrong way will prevent rear trigger from 'setting' the front trigger. Try it both ways to set it where you want, not where someone else wants it.  Don't 'test fire' the gun with the cock or hammer in the 1/2 cock notch. This can break that notch off the tumbler. Always completely fire the gun's lock, or from the fired position.

Replacing a flint with a piece of wood allows practice with a flinter whtout wearing the frizzen nor taking life from a flint.  Making a 'stall' of heavy leather to cushion a nipple will allow dry firing with a cap gun.  Or - simple dry fire the triggers with the cock down.

Dry firing at a mark on the wall or target stapled to the wall is good practise for trigger control.

I have rather thick skin on my fingers from handling nitric acid years ago for browning barrels, so I have to periodically sand the skin on my trigger finger (I use 320 grit wet or dry) to better feel the trigger.  I like 2 to 4 ounces for the 'hair' trigger, but many find this a bit light.  For my hunting rifles of all 'ages', I like 1 1/2 pounds to 2 pounds for the triggers although a crisp pull of 3 pounds is OK.

[coutios]

First of all why does it need adjustment?? Is the adjustment screw loose? If so that must be corrected prior to adjusting, such as a small rubber washer between the screw head and the trigger plate. If the screw is tight and resists being turned out there may be something going on inside such as the engagement points being rounded over or a small wood sliver floating around inside. Just a few additional thoughts...

Regards
Dave

[Roger Fisher]

On most DST triggers you screw it in for lighter pull and back it out for heavier pull.

Yes, So if she decides to back out a bit (which I never had occur) she'll have a harder pull rather than be on a hair.

[Daryl]

On most DST triggers you screw it in for lighter pull and back it out for heavier pull.

Yes, So if she decides to back out a bit (which I never had occur) she'll have a harder pull rather than be on a hair.

Or the screw will back out far enough to fall out.  I set mine where I want them, then CA them with 'ultra' thin CA.

[joe74]

Think I got her.Thanks for the help guys.

[billd]

I'm going to be different than everyone else here. The poster asked for more pressure which I related to more weight, a heavier trigger pull. The internal screw adjusts weight, the external screw adjusts travel.
Bill

[George Sutton]

LOCTITE!! 

Centershot

[Ken G]

Now that Joe has his answer and for the sake of discussion.............
I agree with Bill on the front trigger.  I"m not sure how the front trigger adjustment screw would increase trigger pull weight?  It will most certainly increase the distance the front trigger needs to travel before releasing the rear trigger by screwing it out of the plate and lessen the travel when screwed in.  
But I disagree with the mainspring adjustment increasing trigger pull weight.  by screwing it in it will increase the thump or how hard the rear trigger hits the lock sear but the increase or degrease on trigger pull weight seems to be minimal to me.  It will for sure increase the amount of pressure you need to pull the rear trigger back to set the front.  
I think you need to change the front trigger return spring to make any significant increase to trigger pull weight on a double set trigger.   I'm I looking at this wrong?  
Cheers,
ken

[C Wallingford]

Ken--
I think your explanation is right on. The adjustment screw increases or decreases the front trigger travel not the pull weight.

[Roger Fisher]

Ken--
I think your explanation is right on. The adjustment screw increases or decreases the front trigger travel not the pull weight.

Yes, in reading the original post again (with both eyes) he did use the term 'pressure'.    He is concerned about her falling off and  about all I have ever done when she got too hairy was to back out the external adjustment screw so the trigger bar got more of a positive 'latch'.  As an added note: Years ago (many) I had a shooter that after a lot of rounds the dbl sett would start to fall off.  I would have to pull the triggers and stone the edge of the 'latch'.  Had to stone towards the edge rather than sideways with the edge to get a nice sharp edge on the thing.  I do believe those triggers were not properly hardened and would wear a rounded edge after a lot ofuse..!

So long as the sett triggers work the lock I am not looking for a hard pull to sett them!
Just my humble opinion!

[Daryl]

Every double set trigger I've had, has increased or decreased the felt 'pull' weight simply using the adjustment screw.

[Dphariss]

Set trigger adjustment.
Set the trigger. Turn the adjustment screw in until the trigger "fires" (lock with cock/hammer down). Back of screw 1/2 to 1 turn. Burr the threads on the screw slightly to give enough interference that the screw will stay in place.
Depending on the skill and diligence of the maker the trigger pull may or may not increase when the screw is backed off.
If the set trigger only stays cocked because the front trigger spring is strong enough to hold it cocked then there will be little change in the pull just more creep.
If angles on the rear trigger are such that the trigger is "captured" and has to be pulled off the rear trigger forcing it down then the screw may increase the pull when the screw is backed out.
Properly done angles and with the front pin hole properly placed in relation to the end of the rear trigger the trigger (centered) will have a *somewhat* adjustable weight and unless the screw is adjusted out too far will produce a clean break and allow a light front trigger spring.
If the front pin is behind the end of the rear trigger a very hard pull can result. If the pin is in front of the end of the rear trigger the front trigger spring is all the will hold the trigger set and maybe not then.
Properly done the trigger should stay set with no front trigger spring pressure and have a crisp break.

Dan

[joe74]

The rifle in question is a new build,probaly getting close to 100 rounds though it.Last time out shooting it started to go off it seemed before I even got any pressure on it.After reading your replies I turned the external screw out a bit.Seemed to help.At least now I can put my finger on the trigger with out it firing.Its still a very light trigger but adding the travel must have helped.Thanks again for the info.

[Pete G.]

James Webb put together a little book on triggers and such that is rather interesting. He notes that most of the old triggers were forged from iron, with can be relatively soft. Based on this' I sort of believe that the adjustment screw that we are all so familiar with was originally meant to function as a compensation for wear, not necessarily pull weight.

[Dphariss]

James Webb put together a little book on triggers and such that is rather interesting. He notes that most of the old triggers were forged from iron, with can be relatively soft. Based on this' I sort of believe that the adjustment screw that we are all so familiar with was originally meant to function as a compensation for wear, not necessarily pull weight.

Soft iron would be very short lived in this. Nor will the screw be of any help as the shape of the contact points deformed.
 Any gunsmith worth his salt would case harden them. Case hardened they are good for thousands of shots.

Not all set triggers were cheap and they all have adjustment screws except perhaps some SS triggers on British pistols.
Lots of the stuff imported to the US was imported soft and some perhaps did not take the time to harden them. Shows in import locks at any rate.

Dan

[J.D.]

Set trigger adjustment.
Set the trigger. Turn the adjustment screw in until the trigger "fires" (lock with cock/hammer down). Back of screw 1/2 to 1 turn. Burr the threads on the screw slightly to give enough interference that the screw will stay in place.
Depending on the skill and diligence of the maker the trigger pull may or may not increase when the screw is backed off.
If the set trigger only stays cocked because the front trigger spring is strong enough to hold it cocked then there will be little change in the pull just more creep.
If angles on the rear trigger are such that the trigger is "captured" and has to be pulled off the rear trigger forcing it down then the screw may increase the pull when the screw is backed out.
Properly done angles and with the front pin hole properly placed in relation to the end of the rear trigger the trigger (centered) will have a *somewhat* adjustable weight and unless the screw is adjusted out too far will produce a clean break and allow a light front trigger spring.
If the front pin is behind the end of the rear trigger a very hard pull can result. If the pin is in front of the end of the rear trigger the front trigger spring is all the will hold the trigger set and maybe not then.
Properly done the trigger should stay set with no front trigger spring pressure and have a crisp break.

Dan

I do appreciate your description of the proper set up for set triggers, but being a visual type of person, the description didn't make much sense. The fault lies in my lack of comprehension, not your description. So, would it be possible to post a drawing or photo, for those of us who are visual.

Thanks and God bless

[Curtis]

J.D.,

Here is a link to a page on Bob Spencer's Blackpowder notebook that may be of some help to you.  Lots of good information and fun stuff to read there.

http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/triggerterm.html

The Home page:
http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/index.html

[Dphariss]

Set trigger adjustment.
Set the trigger. Turn the adjustment screw in until the trigger "fires" (lock with cock/hammer down). Back of screw 1/2 to 1 turn. Burr the threads on the screw slightly to give enough interference that the screw will stay in place.
Depending on the skill and diligence of the maker the trigger pull may or may not increase when the screw is backed off.
If the set trigger only stays cocked because the front trigger spring is strong enough to hold it cocked then there will be little change in the pull just more creep.
If angles on the rear trigger are such that the trigger is "captured" and has to be pulled off the rear trigger forcing it down then the screw may increase the pull when the screw is backed out.
Properly done angles and with the front pin hole properly placed in relation to the end of the rear trigger the trigger (centered) will have a *somewhat* adjustable weight and unless the screw is adjusted out too far will produce a clean break and allow a light front trigger spring.
If the front pin is behind the end of the rear trigger a very hard pull can result. If the pin is in front of the end of the rear trigger the front trigger spring is all the will hold the trigger set and maybe not then.
Properly done the trigger should stay set with no front trigger spring pressure and have a crisp break.

Dan

I do appreciate your description of the proper set up for set triggers, but being a visual type of person, the description didn't make much sense. The fault lies in my lack of comprehension, not your description. So, would it be possible to post a drawing or photo, for those of us who are visual.

Thanks and God bless

Copyright Daniel Phariss
Artwork is not the best.
This was done for an article in the BP Cartridge News some years ago.


Dan

[Daryl]

In Dan's picture, if the screw is backed out, the rear trigger will sit lower, allowing the front trigger's engagement to increase distance of engagement, thus increasing the feel of the pull- lengthening it, actually which is what hapens with my 2 sets of set trigers.

[Dphariss]

In Dan's picture, if the screw is backed out, the rear trigger will sit lower, allowing the front trigger's engagement to increase distance of engagement, thus increasing the feel of the pull- lengthening it, actually which is what hapens with my 2 sets of set trigers.

Actually the screw is supposed to bear on the front trigger but all the drawing did not make the conversion it seems. The dotted like indicating the outline of the hidden  part of the front trigger did not come through right somehow.

Dan

[Daryl]

You're right, Dan - I don't know what I was thinking, but the concept of the angles & engagement was still good, I think.  I was thinking of my double set, single throw triggers when printing my post above, where the screw stops the rear trigger's movement and amount of engagment.  Maybe I'm now mixed up and need to look at the double set, double throw triggers more closely.

[roundball]

J.D.,

Here is a link to a page on Bob Spencer's Blackpowder notebook that may be of some help to you.  Lots of good information and fun stuff to read there.

http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/triggerterm.html

The Home page:
http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/index.html

You know, as a side note...Aspen really did a lot of work and made it readily available for free, helping an awful lot of people as they got started into muzzleloading.
I sent him an Email one time making that point and thanking him...we exchanged a couple good Emails...he might appreciate a few more...IMO, he deserves some.

[Dphariss]

You're right, Dan - I don't know what I was thinking, but the concept of the angles & engagement was still good, I think.  I was thinking of my double set, single throw triggers when printing my post above, where the screw stops the rear trigger's movement and amount of engagment.  Maybe I'm now mixed up and need to look at the double set, double throw triggers more closely.

All in all this is not one of my better attempts to explain something by drawing, but it was still on the hard drive and I used it here. The important part is the relationship to the front trigger pin.
People buying set triggers that work out of the box will never have reason to look at this close. But when making triggers or tuning them its something that has to be taken into account.

Dan