The L&R conundrum

[Steeltrap]

After cutting a CVA barrel length wise to make a hook breech, and finding this inside the barrel, I'd never trust anything with CVA on it.

[recurve]

I put a L&R replacement lock in my grandsons Traditions rifle and found the trigger pull got very heavy
so I took it to the best Lock tuner I know Brad at cabin creek,
long story short his fix cost more than the lock, do to all that needed to be fixed!   
No more L&R for me I'll stick to Chambers Locks I have several silers(5) and just got a Dale Johnson all better before tuning than the L&R.
         All my locks get the Cabin creek tuning and cost 1/3 of what the L&R tune cost  (grandsons trigger pull is now 4 pounds)

         and the L&R with the Brad treatment is very nice now

[Lone Wolf]

I bought an L&R Dickert lock sometime around 2009 and could never get it to spark consistently for more than a couple of shots.  I think it was sometime around 2018 I finally contacted L&R about it.  They told me to send it in and replaced the main spring with a forged spring.  If memory serves, they explained that sometime between when I bought the lock and then, they had switched over to the better forged springs.  Anyway, ever since then, I have had no issues with the lock.  So if you're having trouble with one, give them a call.  I was happy with the customer service.

[Steeltrap]

Polishing up all contact points, looking at the sear notch and contact, stone where necessary and the lock works fine. The L&R on my Leman is about 3.75-lbs and when I pull the trigger it goes bang.

If you have to send it to someone to polish it up, it's likely going to cost you. But if you do it yourself it will work fine.....albeit, you will have time invested in it. The lock in this pic is the Manton lock. Smaller than a regular long rifle lock. (And the flint in the pic is too big for this little lock)

[smart dog]

If you have to send it to someone to polish it up, it's likely going to cost you. But if you do it yourself it will work fine.....albeit, you will have time invested in it. The lock in this pic is the Manton lock. Smaller than a regular long rifle lock. (And the flint in the pic is too big for this little lock)

Hi,
Looking at the photo, how can you use a smaller flint without the top jaw striking the the frizzen first?  I've worked over many of these "Manton" locks and they all have this problem.  The face of the frizzen needs to be straightened to allow the flint to clear it at half cock and so the flint hits at more of an angle. The last of of these I fixed bashed the flints badly with every shot dulling them after only a few shots. 

dave

[Steeltrap]

SD, you raise a good point. I usually have my flints flipped the other way (bevel side down). The flint in the pic is a 3/4" and it's recommended a 5/8" flint be used.  With the flint in that pic, the pan cover won't close completely.

When I acquire the correct size flint I'll see how it fits\works.

I suppose if I do have a problem with the top jaw striking the frizzen, I could file back the radius of the top jaw to prevent it from striking the frizzen.

In just "thinking out loud" I would think if I hammered the frizzen straight, that would cause more of a direct "hit" of the flint against the frizzen, causing a much shorter flint life as you have stated.

I can't see any detrimental effects if I need to reduce the top jaw radius, and that would allow the strike\energy of the flint to follow the curve of the frizzen. Of course, if I reduce the radius to much that could cause a problem.....but if I have to do that.......

[alacran]

For the most part the Manton is a great little lock, that is very fast. To me a 3.75 pound trigger pull on a pistol would only be suitable for a self defense weapon.
 The sear engagement on the Manton is very deep in the full cock notch. It is very difficult to get a good trigger pull under 2 pounds with this lock. I have done it but it takes a lot of assembly and disassembly. But it can all be done with sear. Cheap to replace if you bugger it.
The best way to get a good target trigger on this lock is with a single set trigger. On my target pistols, almost identical both the flint and caplock version uses this lock. They both have single set triggers by Larry Akers and they break at 4 ounces with my trigger pull scale.
When a better lock is available that is offered in both flint and cap versions I might try them. But as of now the only other alternative is the small Siler locks.

[Bob Roller]

I don't know about a conundrum but the external parts of the L&R's I have used work fine as a chassis for a different engine.
I rarely   polished them externally.Also made several late Ketlands with Chambers external parts.Maybe 5 of these.L&R had a
lot of trouble with foundries who had no understanding of quality control concerning springs.I KNOW parts for about anything can be cast
so well that the item can be used after it cools off.None of this had migrated to parts for muzzle loading guns.Once again.price is boss and in a market that is very limited and always has been.

Bob Roller

[ScottH]

maybe it is the angle the photo was taken at, but the flintcock in the above picture looks huge compared to the lock plate...

[Steeltrap]

Here's a pic of the Manton cock. It measures (as you can see) 2.300". 

The second pic is an L&R Late English. It measures almost 2.600"

The depth of the top jaw of the Manton is roughly .070" less than the Late English.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Every time someone refers to this lock as a "Manton" I cringe. None of the Mantons would have let a lock like that out of their shops. Anyway the fix for the flintcock and battery face is to heat the neck of the flint cock at the main bend and close the bend until the jaws of the cock are about parallel with the top of the pan when held at half cock.  In other words, they are not tilted down at half cock.  That moves the flint away from the curved surface of the battery allowing a longer flint to be used. You will also benefit from a heavier mainspring than the anemic "forged" spring that now comes with the lock.

dave