Butt-box lid decoration?

[Long John]

If I were to believe everything Mr. Alexander says then there would be no decoration on the sliding wooden butt-box cover on my current work in progress.  (I am deluding myself into thinking that I am building a rifle William Antes might have built in the 1760 timeframe - before he built RCA 53.)  However, the Edward Marshall rifle has a decorated butt-box cover as does an "early rifle" on Allen Martin's web-site.  (While Mr. Martin's rifle is a 21st century product I have enormous regard for his knowledge and skills!)  And then there is Acer's Moravian rifle which also has a decorated wooden butt-box lid.  So I have to question the notion that sliding wooden butt-box covers were not decorated.

Does anyone here have any photos of original rifles with decorated wooden butt-box lids or know of where I could see some?  I have finally finished all of the construction of my current project and it is time to get to the surface decoration. 

I would appreciate any thoughts or resources on this you might have to share.

Best Regards,

JMC

Does any o

[Dphariss]

And how exactly would Alexander know? Did he hold a seance and talk to Ante's?

Silly.

Dan

[rich pierce]

So many sliding lids have been lost that it's hard to say.  In general, the level and sophistication of the carving and decoration on the rest of the rifle should guide you well.

[Joe Stein]

John,
On the KRA Moravian Builders CD there are two Antes rifles, one with no butt box and one with brass box, no help to you.  However, there two Andreas Albrecht rifles with wood lid boxes; one signed and one "attributed to Andreas Albrecht."  Both these boxes have decorative carving on the lids. 
Nice, clear color pictures on this CD.  Well worth the purchase price imho.

-Joe

[Lucky R A]

    Long John. probably the best known early rifle with a decorated box lid is the "Edward marshall rifle"   It is picture in RCA, along with a lot of other early rifles.   Perhaps a google search would turn up a few photos of this fine early rifle.   

[Licensed to kill]

(I am deluding myself into thinking that I am building a rifle William Antes might have built in the 1760 timeframe - before he built RCA 53.) 

See John, THERE's you problem. Like Dan suggested, unless you are doing a bench copy, you would have to have a seance with a maker from the past to know. So, rather than "building a rifle William Antes might have built in the 1760 timeframe", build a rifle YOU would have built had you apprenticed to William Antes in the 1760 timeframe. This way, you incorporate everything you know and like about WA's work (in that time frame) but are free to add personal details to suit your individual taste.   IMO, this is how ALL, but bench copies and all out contemporaries should be built.

[Acer Saccharum]

Golly, having you back Cody, is like a waft of fresh air. Not the cold arctic blast you are experiencing.

Great wisdom from someone so young.


Tom

[Dave B]

I can't remember where I saw this but there is a colonial period coffee grinder with a sliding box lid that matches what a longrifle patch box lid looks like with the initials A A on it.  They attributed it to Andreas Albrecht if I remember correctly.

[Mike Brooks]

I'd do just the opposite of what ever Mr. Alexander recommends....

[Long John]

Thank you all for your input.  I have ordered ALL of the KRA resource materials.  And I have siezed on Cody's pearl of wisdom as it fleshed out the point that Dan made.  We shall see how well I did come this July.

Best Rgards,

JMC

[Licensed to kill]

And I have seized on Cody's pearl of wisdom as it fleshed out the point that Dan made. 

Well, I just seized the point that Dan made then 'shucked' out that "pearl" of wisdom 

[Stophel]

I believe the Schreidt gun has lines carved into it in keeping with the rest of the gun (I don't have photos in front of me).

As a general rule, they didn't seem to get too carried away with box lids.  Often just the thumbnail notch.  Maybe some moulding lines.  Even on otherwise fully decorated guns.  Sometimes a swirl or leafy thing...  Do what you want.  Keep it in line with the rest of the gun.