Damascene instruction, help

[Darrin McDonal]

Does anyone out there ( silly question I know) have any sources for me to find instructions on damascene - processes, supplies and techniques?
 I read the two article by Fred Stutzenburger in MB magazine but it left me with way more questions than it answered.
Thanks for the help!
Darrin McDonal

[smart dog]

Hi Darrin,
No it is not a silly question.  I have engraving experience but have never inlaid patterns of wire such as damacene.  I urge you to check out the following link:

www.handengravingforum.com

Post your question there and I think you will be rewarded.

dave

[Dave B]

The trip I took to Walt Disney world in the early eightys let me see some amaizing work in the Castle where they had diffent artisans making things. There was a fellow making gold detailed designs on these steel ovals. He had sand blasted the surface of the oval and the 24 crt gold was layed over the surface in its proper place then pressed into the surface were it fused it self to the surface. He said you have to use real sand for the blasting to get a rough surface glass beads dont work as well.

Traditionally they used mercury and gold insoulution and painted it onto the surface then flashed off the mercury leaving the gold bonded to the metal in the pattern it was painted in. Yoiu cant do that today with out serious health risks and legal trouble if the local gubberment finds out what your doing.

[Acer Saccharum]

As I understand it, Damascening is applying thin gold to an iron or steel surface. The surface must have 'tooth' as Dave said. Traditionally this is done with chisels, raising teeth in a crosshatch pattern, so the surface looks somewhat like a file, cut from several directions. Gold sheet is laid over, hammered down into the tooth pattern, then burnished. This can be done on a flat surface, but is more durable if done in areas that have been cut down slightly below the surface of the barrel or lock.

Here is where I did some gold inlay, using a technique similar to damacening:
http://tcurran.wordpress.com/2008/12/09/jason-and-the-argonauts/

Then here is wire inlay:
http://thoscurran.wordpress.com/2008/11/17/decorating-the-barrel/

Most of the pictures on my blog can be zoomed up if you click on the picture.

I hope that helps. The hand engraving forum mentioned above is the best for engraving, along with this one: http://www.igraver.com/forum/ .

Tom

[Ron Scott]

This subject came up in a conversation with John Shippers at the CLA show this last Ausgust.  John indicated that his book which is due for release very soon will cover gold work of this type.  John told me that Track Of the Wolf will be selling the book. Having seen the draft of John Engraving Manual, I think it will be a great addition.

[Darrin McDonal]

Thanks guys for the input. What I am refering to, and maybe its the wrong phrase, but inlaying gold / silver in a barrel lets say for a signature or decoration. The part that I find fascinating is how someone can do their name or fine lines and undercut it without nicking the suface edge. I just cant picture how that is done. I am going to look those sights over more.
Darrin

[Doug Cline]

Darrin,
One of the AP Videos, I think it's Building a Longrifle 2 has a section where Hershel shows how to inlay a silver signature plate, if you can get a copy it may help.

Doug

[Darrin McDonal]

Thanks Doug, I do have that and I see how its done on a large scale, its the fine detail type I guess boggles my mind a bit. I did look at the links mentioned above and think I need to make some new gravers of differant shapes and much smaller sizes to do some of it.
If you have Three Centuries of Tradition  book by John Bivins, Mark Silver and Wallace Gusler, check out Rons Jaeger on pg 62 and look at his signature. Wow!! There are other in there also, Keith Casteel,Jud Brennan etc.
This is something to study more this June at Bowling Green.

[Acer Saccharum]

Darrin, I hate to say it, but the most efficient way to learn how to inlay precious metals is to go to school for it. GRS and others offer classes in inlay. This is something that is very hard to convey on line, without a great whopping tutorial.

I can describe the principals of inlay, but it's in the minutiae that makes all the difference. It's the details that makes the gold stay in or not, the shape of the tools for every style of cut and inlay. Easier to show you than to write a book. You also get the interaction between student and teacher. The teacher knows when you understand the concept, and only then do you move on.

Tom

[Darrin McDonal]

Yep Tom, I think you hit it on the head. Have you gone to any of the  GRS schools, or Lindsay school?

[Joey R]

Darrin, Do you know where someone might find a copy of  Three Centuries of Tradition by John Bivens? Thanks much in advance, Joey.

[Acer Saccharum]

Darrin, I took a ten day course with Jerry Huddleston, in Eastern Oregon. Best thing I ever did. I learned how to sharpen properly, then I learned that different operations require special tools to be made, particularly for background removal and precious metal inlay. This hands on class changed my life.

I struggled for a long time before I took this class, and thinking back on it, I learned really fast because I knew WHAT I wanted to accomplish, but did not know how. So there is some value in struggle, but the downside is that you may have to 'unlearn' some of your self taught tricks. Besides, the clock ticketh, and it's best to get on with your plan as soon as you can, man.

Tom

[Darrin McDonal]

Jerry Huddleston, huh? Wow, I didnt know he taught classes but I see his work frquently and holy cow is he good. Well Tom when I walked over to your table and took a close look at your jeager I was very impressed and I wish I talked with you more about it in person.
Does Jerry still teach?
Thanks for your help.
Darrin