Author Topic: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build  (Read 8841 times)

Offline Curtis

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2024, 07:10:00 AM »
Unfortunately the only tang bolts available when I ordered parts were of the domed head variety, which are not really suitable for this type of rifle.



So in order to to make the domed bolts work for this project I will deepen the screw slots with a slotting file made from a cheap needle file - I simply ran ground off the teeth on the flats with a belt sander, and left the edge intact.  I made this several years ago a,s well as another one from a small warding file and have gotten a lot of use from them.  Be sure to make the slots deep enough that you can safely unscrew the bolts after the heads are filed flush with the work-piece.





The bolt heads are then filed nearly flush and the draw filed the rest to the way.  This is a photo of domed screw used on the trigger plate that received the same treatment as the tang bolts.  I will post a photo of the tang bolts later... didn't get one taken yet.  ::)





Some of you may have spotted this in earlier photos, and now here is the story.  When I made my saw cuts in shaping the stock, I ended up with a transition that was too abrupt where the bottom of the wrist meets the bottom of the butt-stock, and it needed a little help.  So a took a slabbed off scrap from adjacent to the area needing to be patched, and cut a couple of small pieces keeping the grain orientation the same as the area in question.  I used a dark wood glue and clamped the two pieces in place.











Some say the mark of a good gun builder is the ability to fix their own mistakes...  The patches are sinfully ugly at this point , but will virtually almost disappear as the stock is shaped and will be completely UN-noticable by the time the stock is stained and finished.  Getting the wood orientation correct is very important to help that to happen.  And YES, they don't look wide enough to adequately do the job, but when the bottom is shaped towards the lock panels they will prove sufficient for the task as well as change shape.

Here are a few photos of working the area down, you can already see the patches are looking better.  We will keep an eye on them in future posts.









The last thing I want to tackle before beginning to shape he stock is to inlet the nosecap.  Some folks may also want to inlet the entry pipe, but I like to get some wood out of the way before I start to mess with that.



Thanks for looking,
Curtis
« Last Edit: April 26, 2024, 07:13:18 AM by Curtis »
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Online Steeltrap

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2024, 01:22:48 PM »
Nice work!!

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #52 on: April 26, 2024, 04:18:09 PM »
Great tutorial. Thanks.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2024, 05:22:59 PM »
Yes,a GOOD tutorial and the handsaw was something I have never seen used in stock making but it obviously works,
The modification of the screw heads is another thing and well done.I thought about making screws for these jobs but
too many thought they should be 5 for a dollar or less.Too repeticious now to even consider.
Thanks for posting this fine "How to do it"build.I AM wondering about the West Virginia ZIP code on the lock plate ;D ;D?
Bob Roller

Offline Curtis

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2024, 07:53:47 AM »
Thanks for your truly kind words gents!  Bob- I'm guessing that West Virginia ZIP Code on the lock plate is also Muzzleloader's Building Supply's stock number for the part.   ;D  The blue writing on the lock was a note to myself so I could keep may parts together with the proper gun.

I like to mark the outline of the nosecap to give me a reference for rapid wood removal.



The approach to inletting the nosecap that I am using for this rifle is a bit different than those I have done before, however sometimes a little experimenting is a good thing, especially if it helps one discover a better method of doing things...  I guess we will find out if it works!

Normally I would turn the barrel upside down to use for a guide (since the underrib is in the way) but instead I will be using the cut-off section of barrel I got from shortening the barrel.  Here is the cutoff, as you can see I drove a dowel into the bore to use for a handle, as well as sharpener the face so the cutoff can be used as a barrel channel scraper.  I have several of these made from different sized barrel pieces.





I clamped the "scraper" in place to use for a guide:



Then rasped away some of the excess wood:



You can see a line where I glued an extension of wood onto the stock to get a bit more length out of it - the seam will be hidden under the nosecap.  You can also see some inletting black on the face of the stock where I pressed the nosecap against the wood.  The wood will have to come off to below the blackened area to start fitting the nosecap.





At this point I decide to move to using chisels and gouges to remove the current round of wood.





I can now begin to slip the cap backwards onto the inlet.  It is advisable to keep the cap butt perpendicular to the barrel, or you will have a mess to fix if the cap tilts excessively.  Yup, you guessed it, I know that from a bad experience of doing just that very thing once..... ::)



I rasp some more wood out of the way



Then mark a line where I want the butt of the cap to end up, and file fairly close up to the line:





Then start using SHARP chisels to pare away wood.









I painted the inside and back face of the nosecap with inlet black, and kept fitting the cap and paring away the black marks until I was happy with the fit and position of the cap.







The barrel stub was then removed and the barrel re-installed.  Not too a bad fit!!!







I didn't have an appropriate machine screw for securing the cap so I made one from a framing nail, turned the head down with a file in my drill press then tapped the nail to 8-32.





A hacksaw was used to cut a slotted groove in the head:





The cap was drilled and tapped, the stock clearance drilled:





The new screw head was countersunk and filed flush, and the excess bolt trimmed and filed flush to the cap.  The soft "nail screw" will be case hardened later just for added security.







My next step will be shaping the stock - the entry thimble could be inlet at this point however I personally like to get some more wood off before tackling that task.

Thanks again for looking,
Curtis
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Online Steeltrap

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2024, 02:29:07 PM »
Nice nose cap work!!

Offline Curtis

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #56 on: April 30, 2024, 08:09:40 AM »
Thank you Steeltrap, glad to know you are still following along!


Part One of shaping the stock:

I shape my stocks using a method taught by Jack Brooks, altered a bit over the years by my fuzzy memory.  8)

Basically it involves setting the profile to the desired dimensions, then setting all the widths to their respective dimensions.  IE, the stock is still "in the square" but will have the heights and widths of the finished gun established, and the top, sides and bottom of the wood are square to each other.  Next you must imagine going from the "square" (or rectangular) to "octagonal".  See the sketches below:



First I make sure all my center lines are in place on the stock.  Next while visualizing what must come off to form the "octagonal" shape I freehand sketch some reference lines which will give me an idea where I want to take wood [i]away[/i] from:





















The center-lines of the forestock will actually change a bit from the entry thimble forward to the nosecap - these lines are a bit crude but it helps me remember that stock architecture fact when I am whittling away.



Now comes the funnest part (in my opinion!) of stocking a rifle - making that board to look like a gun!  One can use a bandsaw, rasp, plane, spokeshave or whatever else you have in your arsenal to take the wood off.  Always pay attention to what the grain is telling you no matter what tools you use.  I prefer edged tools as long as the grain cooperates without a lot of tear-outs, then wood rasps and hoof rasps etc.













Keep in mind at this point we are still working in "planes".  Here are a couple series of visual aides that demonstrate how the "planes" vary by the shape of the stock:



















A straight-edge placed lengthwise on the stock will help you to avoid high or low spots.  If you darken the edge with a Sharpie (I prefer using Red for Maple) and move the straight-edge back and forth it will flag the high spots for you so you can eliminate them.





Taking off a little more in a few spots:





That's all for now, Part Two will come shortly.

Curtis
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline J.D.

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #57 on: April 30, 2024, 08:50:05 AM »
Outstanding technique!

Offline flatsguide

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2024, 02:06:29 PM »
I’m really enjoying watching you make chips and I like your use of guide lines. This is the part of stock making I really enjoy, especially with wood that plays nice. You sure do nice work Curtis, I learn a tidbit every time from your ‘ how I do it’ posts.
Cheers Richard

Offline Curtis

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2024, 07:09:35 AM »
Thank you J.D. and Richard.  It is my favorite part of stock making as well, Richard.  This stock is interesting fun, one side of the rifle plays really nice with the edged tools, the other side not so much!!!


I thought I should share an inspirational sign that I have posted in my workshop - blatantly stolen from my friend Hank Elwood, who in turn stole it from another friend of his.


Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Curtis

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #60 on: May 01, 2024, 07:43:39 AM »
Stock Shaping Part 2

Once the stock is successfully in the Octagon shape, the next step is to make it into a Hexadecagon shape. (that mouthful of word means a sixteen-sided polygon or 16-gon)  Yes, I had to look that up.... ;D

So I draw more reference lines, situated between my existing reference lines.  The forestock is the best place to visualize the process as it wi be the most rounded part of the rifle.



In these views I will be removing the wood peak between these two lines as indicated by the short pencil marks going across the high points.









The butt and the wrist get the same treatment.  The hoof rasp can really power off some wood in a hurry!









As for above and below the lock panels, there isn't much need to draw any new lines as the area basically need to be pretty well flattened out to a slight arc.





At this point I also start to refine he lock panels a bit. I use files, rasps, some rounded floats that I made, and sometimes gouges all depending on how the grain cooperates with whatever tool, and how much wood needs to come off in an area.













As I work along the stock, when I see an area that needs more attention I like to mark it up with a pencil as a reminder.



I start blending the small flats into curved surfaces at this point.  The thing is finally starting to resemble a rifle!





Enough for tonight!  Until the next post....

Curtis
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Adrie luke

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #61 on: May 01, 2024, 09:41:05 AM »
Curtis

It is always nice to make something beautiful from a piece of wood.
The pursuit of perfection and always trying to do better
is also reflected in this.
I always enjoy anyone who does that.
Very nice gift.

Adrie

Online Steeltrap

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #62 on: May 01, 2024, 02:14:10 PM »
Nice work!!

Offline reddogge

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2024, 07:31:33 PM »
I always enjoy learning a new technique from seeing how others do things. Thanks, Curtis.

Offline Curtis

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2024, 07:22:45 AM »
Adrie, Steeltrap and Reddogge, I really appreciate reading your comments!  Or perhaps better put, I appreciate your appreciation!  :D


Stock Shaping Part 3

When working with a long stretch of wood, such as the forestock, I find it useful to occasionally use a long, flat tool to help in the elimination of high and low spots that will show badly once the finish is on the wood.  Here I am using a file, but even a long piece of sandpaper over a long flat board will do the trick.





The use of a raking light will you spot uneven places in your stock.  Notice how the visual changes as I move the light to change the shadow. A high or low spot will show as a variance in the shadow line.









I continue to work down the areas above and below the lock panels.  The patches I glued in earlier have really changed in size and shape by at this point.









I also continually mark up areas that need attention when I spot them.  This process will continue until I am ready to put the finish on.





As I shape the butt it becomes apparent to me that the cheek piece needs a bit of refinement and downsizing in order to look right,  so I mark it up in pencil and then start removing more wood.









A little bit of shallow "roll stabbing" helps define a sharp transition, reducing the risk of grain tear-outs on the cheek surface when I cut the wood away.





Still getting there, looking a bit better all the time.





Now it's time to take a break from shaping until I get a few more parts inlet, some of which are critical to the shaping of certain areas, starting with the entry pipe.



Thanks for looking,
Curtis

Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Curtis

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #65 on: May 06, 2024, 07:56:53 AM »
You can see in this photo where I marked the center of the entry pipe skirt to help keep it straight while in-letting.  I also marked the stock with my rasp approximately where the tab in the pipe ends.



Next I rasped away a bit of wood to make a flat spot and begin creating a mortise for the tab.



now I mark the skirt transition area with a pencil



I rasped away some wood to the pipe-skirt transition area then cut away wood in the ramrod channel to the width of the pipe





Replace the pipe and mark a bit inside the edges of the transition area with a pencil, then cut the wood between the lines out:







Lay the pipe back in place and scribe beside the pipe and up to the transition area and cut out wood to the scribe:



Blacken the underside & edges of the pipe, skirt and tab, replace and tap wit a leather mallet:



Then start cutting wood away with gouges where the inlet black leaves a mark:









Repeat that process several times until the skirt gets close enough to the wood to start a scribe line, and scribe a third of the way up the skirt or so.



Stab the scribe line in with a chisel and start removing some wood:







As the pipe goes further in I scribe the remainder of the skirt, stab the scribe and remove more wood.





Refresh the inlet black (or smoke) as needed, keep fitting the pipe, tapping into place, and cutting away the blackened areas the entire length of the entry pipe.



Just a few thousandths left to go in the area indicated!









I mark with a pencil then trim away some extra wood in the transition area:





Then mark the distance to where I want to place the pins:



I clamp the pipe in place (not too tightly!).  Mark each pin placement with a pencil, both sides, then prick the hole site with a scribe, punch a mark and drill until just through the pipe tab.  I remove the bit from the hole every 1/16" or so to clear the chips in order to help keep the bit from wandering.



Drill from the other side the same way:



Then take off wood that is hard to reach when the pipe is pinned in place





I find that my pin sizes and drill sizes sometimes are not exactly the same, so I take a piece of pin material, grind one end to a wedge point, then run it through the holes with a drill.



Tap the pins in place with a punch



Finish up with a bit of filing where needed, and then relax!  The pipe is in!







Curtis
« Last Edit: May 06, 2024, 09:21:51 AM by Curtis »
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Curtis

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #66 on: May 08, 2024, 07:29:21 AM »
Next in line is a much smaller project, inletting the sideplate.  (or lockbolt washer)

First I file a slight draft on the piece to be inlet.  I have noticed that several of the Hawken parts I have recently purchased have been either laser or EDM cut instead of stamped.  This makes for a nice part and reduces the prep time a bit.  You can see the evidence in the second photo below.





I make sure the part is perpendicular to the bore, then tighten the lock bolt and scribe around the inlay.  Then I roll stab using a tool made from a cheap tiny screwdriver.









I get in there and start removing wood with various tools.











Once I have the outline established I stab in with gouges, take out more wood and check the depth of my inlet.







One I am happy with the fit and depth, I tap the sideplate in place and try the lock bolt.



A bit of file work and it's done!





Next up, the toeplate.




Thanks for looking,
Curtis
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #67 on: May 08, 2024, 09:38:31 AM »
Curtis, great work. I would like to see the process you use for the toe plate inlet and joint with the butt plate. My butt/toe plate joint was not well done and I think we used the same or similar butt plate.

Offline Curtis

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2024, 08:24:49 AM »
Thank you HighUintas.  I probably didn't take as many photos of that part of the process as I should have, but I will try to explain what I did to fit things together.  If I don't make it clear enough, feel free to as questions.

I have taken a few different approaches to fitting and inletting toeplates, that said, the process I used on this build seems to work pretty well for me.

First I file a draft on all the parts of the finial, then position the toeplate to the base end it just touching the bottom inside edge of the buttplate, and the finial is centered on the stock.  Then I mark each of the screw holes with a pencil by tracing the inside of the hole.





In a situation such as this I like to locate the center of the holes with a sharp scribe, and push it in enough to make a hole.  Then I carefully center punch using the tiny hole as a guide.  I find I can get the hole centered more accurately using the scribe, and if the hole is slighly off it can be cheated over in the right direction before center punching.





I like starting the holes with a gimlet as it's path can be corrected a bit in the early stages of making the hole. Using a square can help with the hole alignment - of the hole is properly aligned the screw head will sit nicely in the countersink later.  If you don't have any gimlets a drill bit works fine.



I put the screws in snug and then scribe around the finial:





Then I stab in the outline much like in previous posts.  When I have a complex form like this with lots of tiny corners, I like to overlap the stabbed lines on the inside corners, to help prevent breaking off the points while removing wood.  For outside corners, well, you just gotta be careful.  See the circled lines.



Then get in there and start taking wood out.





At the back of the plate I like to gouge out (stay inside the lines) some wood to help speed the wood removal process and set some depth, then file or rasp the wood to depth, keeping the area FLAT and SQUARE as best as you can.





Continue on with the finial inlet then fit the toeplate. at this stage the rear of the toeplate will be somewhat raised by the interference with the butt plate.  The deeper the inlet, the more the butt interferes because of it's deep curvature.





So to counter that, I file a bevel on the back of the toeplate to approximate the curve of the buttplate.  Don't take too much off.



As I go down with the toeplate, I blacken the bottom of the plate, the edges of the finial, and the bevel at the back.  I remove wood where the black transfers.  Where the toeplate meets the buttplate, I tap with a rawhide mallet, then file the shiny spots that show interference on the bevel of the toeplate back.  You can see the exposed curve on the inside of the buttplate in this photo pretty well.



Tap the toeplate in place when the inletting is complete and check for fitment.



One can get a nice joint with the buttplate with some patience and careful filing.  As you can see in the photo I like to mark my screws and keep them with their respective holes as they are all a little different.





The screws will tend to raise the wood around their holes, so when something needs to lie perfectly flat against the wood, I slightly countersink the wood in the screw holes.



I find the countersinks in the metal go faster if you countersink on a scrap board, and try fit the screws until they are very close to fitting whils still off the stock - it reduces the number of times you have to go in and out with the screws.



Re-attach the plate, file the screw heads, the draw file the whole thing until it is all even.  The buttstock will have to be re-contoured to the width of the toeplate as indicated.









HighUintas, I will get a better photo of the butt-toe joint area and post it soon.

Next up:  Wedge escutcheons.



Thanks to all of you who are keeping up with this looooong thread!

Curtis
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Curtis

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2024, 09:36:49 AM »
Also coming soon - the Elephant in the closet....   :o

Curtis
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline runastav

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2024, 03:08:48 PM »
Beautiful work Curtis!
Runar

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2024, 05:35:29 PM »
Quote
I put the screws in snug and then scribe around the finial:

Then I stab in the outline much like in previous posts.  When I have a complex form like this with lots of tiny corners, I like to overlap the stabbed lines on the inside corners, to help prevent breaking off the points while removing wood.  For outside corners, well, you just gotta be careful.

Curtis,
I discovered the benefit of scribing pretty quickly when I started building guns.  Many do this with an Xacto knife, as I initially did, but found that it often followed the grain rather than the object being inlet.  I started using an ice pick, which follows the contours exactly as though you were using a pencil to outline it; with the added advantage of leaving a small gutter allowing you to accurately place whatever tool you were using to stab in the design.
Dave Kanger

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Offline HighUintas

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #72 on: May 11, 2024, 07:05:27 AM »
Curtis, thank you! Your picture showing the countersink of the screw hole in the wood shows me enough detail of your butt plate joint. I attempted to to the same thing, but filed too far into the butt plate and cut through the side flat because it's so thin. So the joint has sort of a dovetail like appearance. I'll nail the next one.

Thanks for all the pictures and instruction. I enjoy following along with your great work.

Offline Curtis

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #73 on: May 11, 2024, 07:09:25 AM »
Thanks Runar!

Curtis,
I discovered the benefit of scribing pretty quickly when I started building guns.  Many do this with an Xacto knife, as I initially did, but found that it often followed the grain rather than the object being inlet.  I started using an ice pick, which follows the contours exactly as though you were using a pencil to outline it; with the added advantage of leaving a small gutter allowing you to accurately place whatever tool you were using to stab in the design.

I would have to agree with your observations 100%, Dave.  My own experiences with scribing are pretty similar with the exception I started using an old awl instead of an ice pick.  I use a scribing knife occasionally on a straight run but prefer a round sharp pointed tool most of the time.

Curtis
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Curtis

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Re: Hawken-esque Plains Rifle Build
« Reply #74 on: May 11, 2024, 07:19:39 AM »
HighUintas, I was just getting ready to post the photos when your post popped in!  I'm glad my posting helped some.  I would avoid filing the buttplate any beyond just smoothing the inside surface a bit - because as you discovered it is quite thin in this area and can quickly cause a problem.  I prefer to do all the fitting file-work on the toeplate.  Much cheaper to replace also, lol.  ;D

Anyway, here are those pics.





Curtis
Curtis Allinson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing