Soddy-Daisy 2-piece butt plate questions

[stan57]

What would the the thickness range be, generally, of the upper part of the S-D 2-piece butt plates:



E.g. .020"-.060"?

Also, are there known examples of mixing iron and brass - i.e. iron + brass on the top?

Any responses greatly appreciated.

[Dave B]

I have a late TN rifle that has a two piece butt plate and the metal is .150-.180  in thickness

[stan57]

Thanks Dave. Is that a brass top over iron? Patina in pic looks like brass.

[Dave B]

Not brass just old BLO giving that golden tone in the light

[Dave B]

These were made from the same ticknes as an original iron TN rifle buttplate being .060 thick. Easy to cold forge.

[stan57]

Mucho thanks Dave

[Daniel Coats]

Thin metal bends easier than thick. I forge mine where each piece is thicker in the middle and tapered towards each edge front to back and side to side. This helps control the complex curves as you shape each part to the existing curves matched to your stock. What you end up with is a hand Forged butt plate not one it looks like it was cut out of sheet metal with a pair of tin snips.

[Hungry Horse]

 I own an antique southern mountain butt plate that although it is totally hand made, was never two piece. It has a very narrow strip of metal that links the two pieces together, to make the brazing much easier. Joining two pieces is not for the easily frustrated, or anybody who isn’t familiar with brazing.

Hungry Horse

[Dave B]

I use a cold chisel to cut out my paterns. It is not possible to cut this gauge sheet metal with hand shears. The thickness of original buttplate is the same as what i used to make these.

[Daniel Coats]

Lots of different methods

[Dave B]

Dan. I am seeing this right that the soddy school buttplate has very little or no concavity to the body of the plate it self? It seems that it is very flat. What thickness of stock due you start with? I picked up some 1/8 cold rolled steel from Home depot to try what your doing. Conceivably you will end up with an elongated D profile vs just flat in cross section.

[oldtravler61]

  On the butt or crescent shape. Soddy rifles have a coffin style. They are not rounded like southern Tennessee rifles. They are a critter all into themselves.
  Most surviving guns are chunk guns with few hunting style guns showing up. In Randall Pierces book Guns of the Smokey Mountains shows one original in detail.

[stan57]

How prevalent were S-D's with no metal butt plate at all and no nose cap?

[Dave B]

Hungry Horse, Can you snap a couple shots of the butt section of your rifle so we can see the construction of this style. Being the get it done as easy as {Ahem " Work Man Like" ) as possible could be a better way to go if you had the one piece the right size to start with that would allow you to just that. A close up of the  joined section would be very enlightening.

[Dave B]

The pic. Use by the OP is from the ALR museum here. Looking at a quartering shot of the side and top view one sees the retaining screws but the rivet has what appers to be a slot??? Is that a screwholding the buttplate together??? It sure looks that way. Is the return not brazed to the plate??? it looks like it.

[Daniel Coats]

How prevalent were S-D's with no metal butt plate at all and no nose cap?

Only one original rifle that I know of sold at auction.

Here's a link
https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/lot-280515.aspx

[Daniel Coats]

How prevalent were S-D's with no metal butt plate at all and no nose cap?

Only one contemporary that I know of built by myself without a butt plate also sold at auction. Here's a link documenting the build.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=65648.0

[Daniel Coats]

Dan. I am seeing this right that the soddy school buttplate has very little or no concavity to the body of the plate it self? It seems that it is very flat. What thickness of stock due you start with? I picked up some 1/8 cold rolled steel from Home depot to try what your doing. Conceivably you will end up with an elongated D profile vs just flat in cross section.

I've also used cold rolled 1/8 inch material then heat beat and repeat.

[Daniel Coats]

Here's a link to an original Soddy Daisy made by Johnny Clements while living in Soddy Daisy Tennessee. I own this rifle and it is one of the best examples I know of with all classic Soddy Daisy features.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=76446.0

[Daniel Coats]

Pictures of my original rifle showing the butt area. Has the diamond shape mentioned earlier but is more rounded on the right to accommodate the patch box.

This one was hand forged showing the telltale forging marks and varying thickness. Some original rifles appear indeed to have been made using sheet metal but not this one.

[stan57]

How prevalent were S-D's with no metal butt plate at all and no nose cap?

Only one contemporary that I know of built by myself without a butt plate also sold at auction. Here's a link documenting the build.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=65648.0

Thanks Dan, that clears up for me how they got a bare stock butt with the deep arc and pointed toe to survive: they kept the top cover and toe plate.