AW Spies - solid info?

[Eric Kettenburg]

So this guy seems later than most of my areas of interest, but I'm wondering if anyone has good, solid, *documented* information as to just how early a flintlock marked "AW Spies Warranted" could be?  Googling brings up too much undocumented speculative stuff, too much "probably" or "approximately" etc. for my comfort.  At the moment, I'm thinking a lock with this marking can't date earlier than @ 1830s based upon some abstracts via NY state sites.

Does anyone know if this guy was marketing any smoothbores/muskets etc for the western trade, i.e. so called 'northwest trade guns' or something along those lines?  Again, not my usual area or period of interest so I'm out of the loop on these later pieces.  Pretty much everything I've ever seen with such a marking has been a much later percussion or back action lock, so I'm wondering what a decent sized flintlock with such a marking could be used for?  Over 6" long, too big for rifles of the period, so wondering if there are any western trade arms of the 1830s/1840s that might work.

[rich pierce]

Dunno. Can’t recover the pictures from this post. https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=32852.0

[Seth Isaacson]

His wares date to c. 1833-1850 from what I've seen. Spies was in a partnership with Christopher Wolfe and R. Smith Clark that was dissolved on January 1, 1833. That same year, Adam W. Spies (1800-1891) advertised that he had continued the business, and he is later identified as retiring from A.W. Spies & Co. in 1850 and thereafter dedicating his time to fire insurance.:

[Bob Roller]

I had a caplock half stock rifle with a lock marked A.W.Spies but don't remember much about it other than it was not a junk gun.
69 years have staggered by since then.

Bob Roller

[Jerry Girard]

Man At Arms August 2000 had an article on A. W. Spies. Hope this helps.
Jerry

[Habu]

So this guy seems later than most of my areas of interest, but I'm wondering if anyone has good, solid, *documented* information as to just how early a flintlock marked "AW Spies Warranted" could be?  Googling brings up too much undocumented speculative stuff, too much "probably" or "approximately" etc. for my comfort.  At the moment, I'm thinking a lock with this marking can't date earlier than @ 1830s based upon some abstracts via NY state sites.

Does anyone know if this guy was marketing any smoothbores/muskets etc for the western trade, i.e. so called 'northwest trade guns' or something along those lines?  Again, not my usual area or period of interest so I'm out of the loop on these later pieces.  Pretty much everything I've ever seen with such a marking has been a much later percussion or back action lock, so I'm wondering what a decent sized flintlock with such a marking could be used for?  Over 6" long, too big for rifles of the period, so wondering if there are any western trade arms of the 1830s/1840s that might work.

Spies was an importer, and sold locks etc.  The locks, and various pistols with his mark, seem to have been Birmingham-made.  I've seen two guns with his large flintlocks, both appeared to be muskets (possibly suitable for militia use); one was signed on the barrel by the apparent maker.  One showed up in Florida, the other walked in at Brimfield.  Both have the "Warranted" mark. 

A. W. Spies didn't pop up in a quick search of my notes on suppliers of guns to the large fur trading firms (though he could have provided guns through a wholesaler, or to one of the smaller concerns).  His mark doesn't appear in my database of >400 surviving North West guns.  Of guns with known provenance of use in the trans-Mississippi west, his mark starts appearing around the time of the major overland emigration.  By 1847 a couple of retailers in St. Louis mentioned having his pistols in stock.  In 1854 a "Spies pistol" showed up in some accounts of St. Louis-based Pierre Choteau Jr and Co.  His locks seem to start showing up on rifles ~1850, but I don't have any with known provenance prior to 1867 in my notes. 

[Steve Collward]

Eric,
  As others have been offering you some more information regarding A.W. Spies, all I have to add is the attached photo of an "A.W. Spies" flintlock.  It is not marked "Warranted".  This lock was of pretty good quality and was on a smoothbore gun.

[Joe Stein]

Chris Hirsch has a picture of a pistol with a lock marked A W SPIES on his website. He also shows pictures of the lock out of the pistol, both inside and outside. Maybe he will answer in on this if he has any more information.
Joe Stein

edited by me to correct Chris Hirsch name spelling.

[JV Puleo]

You need Bruce Bazelon's Directory of Military Goods Dealers and Makers. Spies was an importer, primarily of military buttons but he'd sell anything he could make a profit on. The current edition of Bruce's work is in two volumes...the second updating the first with new information so you really need both to get the full picture because he didn't include dealers he did not have new information on in the second volume. It's rather confusing but its all solid information based exclusively on primary sources. He was located in New York City and the earliest date known is 1827 when he issued a button catalog. Spies flintlocks are not commonly seen since they have to date from after the advent of percussion ignition. It's proof that the flintlock continued in use well past the introduction of percussion even in the east where the supply of caps was not as problematical as it was on the frontier.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Thanks for all of the information guys.  I'm betting that this lock is a Brit import trade lock that Spies stamped.  No internal bridle and it's fowler/musket size w/ a double 'tulip stamp' at the rear.  I found a picture on an old Guns International listing of a "militia musket" with an almost identical lock, and I suspect it's probably identical to that upon which this lock was originally installed.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/military-rifles---us/flintlock-militia-musket--69-cal--by-a-w--spies.cfm?gun_id=101391134

The lock functions very well and is tight for a bridleless lock, so trying to figure out something interesting to do with it.

[cshirsch]

A. W. Spies was a merchant and importer.  All the locks stamped or engraved with his name were made by others or imported.

https://www.texasguntrade.com/Spiespistol.htm 

[moseswhite]

Chris , do you have any locks marked ' Wolf and Clark ?

[cshirsch]

Chris , do you have any locks marked ' Wolf and Clark ?

I'm not sure.  I have a lot of original locks.  A whole lot of 'em.