Author Topic: Joel Ferree  (Read 1687 times)

Offline DaveM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 528
Joel Ferree
« on: May 22, 2024, 03:55:31 AM »
Since we are sharing info on early Lancaster makers, I just ran across a copy of an early Lancaster County deed, where Joel Ferree is noted as a gunsmith, in a 1752 sale of his land. He purchased the property in 1748, so he must be a pretty early maker also in Lancaster County. This property was in Leacock Township.

Offline 120RIR

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 392
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2024, 07:09:23 AM »
Born in 1731 to Huguenot parents.  If he purchased a property in 1748, it's a testament to his industriousness and perhaps early success in the field at what would be considered a "young" age today.

Offline spgordon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1328
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2024, 07:10:42 PM »
Joel Ferree lived & worked his entire life, I think, in Leacock Township, which lies considerably east of the city of Lancaster. Not a candidate for the craftsman who trained some of the early gunsmiths (such as Dickert) who worked in Lancaster city, but an important early Lancaster County gunsmith for sure. 



A few months later, Lancaster County's Committee of Observation contracted with Ferree for musket barrels, and he had an earlier contract for barrels with Philadelphia County:

Resolved that tis the Opinion of this Committee that Mr. Joel Ferree immediately proceed to Work & forge Bore & Grind a Number of good Muskets Barrells compleated agreeable to the pattern sent from Philadelphia, the said Mr. Ferree not however to neglect the Barrels by him to be furnished for the County of Philadelphia according to the Contract Made between the Commissioners of said County & himself but to lay by all other Work whatsoever.

Mr Joel Ferree being in Committee & agreeing with Mr. Bowsman, Esq. one of the members of Committee & one of the Commissioners of Lancaster County to furnish as great a Number of good compleat Musket Barrells as he possibly can, finished agreeable to the Philadelphia Pattern at & for the price of Nineteen shillings each—the same to be delivered to the order of William Bowsman, Esq., for & upon account of the said County of Lancaster & also to grind the Musket Barrels forged & Bored by the Workmen in the said County for the use of the Gunsmiths thereof in Order to compleat their Contract with this Board at & for a reasonable price. The said Contract & Agreement are approved of by this Committee.

Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2024, 12:06:29 AM »
Great document Scott.

I'm guessing the "Philadelphia Pattern" was based on the 1756 Long Land Pattern rather than the 1769 Short Land Pattern. I'll check De Witt Bailey's book to see if any Pattern 1769 muskets had been issued to troops this early in the Rev War.

By the way, I was saddened to learn that Bailey has passed away. Terrible loss for arms students.

Kent
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964


Offline backsplash75

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2024, 12:21:37 AM »
Great document Scott.

I'm guessing the "Philadelphia Pattern" was based on the 1756 Long Land Pattern rather than the 1769 Short Land Pattern. I'll check De Witt Bailey's book to see if any Pattern 1769 muskets had been issued to troops this early in the Rev War.

By the way, I was saddened to learn that Bailey has passed away. Terrible loss for arms students.

Kent

Kent,
There is a "Philadelphia county" marked musket by Nicholson in the Greensboro History Museum (NC) collection, it has a 44 inch barrel and basically is p56ish hardware. Oval cartouche proof mark at breech, #201 on the escutcheon.

Offline spgordon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1328
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2024, 12:23:25 AM »
I'm guessing the "Philadelphia Pattern" was based on the 1756 Long Land Pattern rather than the 1769 Short Land Pattern. I'll check De Witt Bailey's book to see if any Pattern 1769 muskets had been issued to troops this early in the Rev War.

I'll be interested to know what you find. I don't know what the Philadelphia pattern was (but that one just mentioned in the Greensboro NC Museum collection would answer that!)--but I had thought it was a new thing/pattern, since part of the problem with musket production in the counties in these years is that each county was waiting for the new-made pattern muskets to arrive and these pattern muskets were very, very slow to arrive. John Nicholson was paid on 15 September 1775 for “eleven pattern Guns" to be sent to "each County in this Province."

If the pattern musket had been a common form--based on an earlier pattern--I would think the pattern would be more readily available? I'm honestly not sure.
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2024, 01:17:07 AM »
If I remember correctly, the Brits left 5000 Long Lands in North America after they withdrew most of their forces following the end of the Seven Years War. So, they were available for copy.

Also, I presume that was the pattern most colonists were familiar with following the above mentioned war. But, "presuming" is not "knowing"!  :)
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline spgordon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1328
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2024, 01:37:28 AM »
I get all that—but then why were they waiting for new pattern muskets made by Nicholson?
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

Offline DaveM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 528
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2024, 01:43:52 AM »
I like that Ferree was a member of the committee - and agreed with the committee that he should get a contract from the committee for barrels without other bids! Good way to get business. I’ll bet Dickert complained about that!

I saw Ferree’s will. An interesting item is that he possessed an “air gun” which at the time the will was written was in the possession of his son - but Ferree willed it to his grandson Joel. Wonder if he made the air gun?

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2024, 02:14:38 AM »
I get all that—but then why were they waiting for new pattern muskets made by Nicholson?

That is something I cannot speak to.

On a lighter note, I dug out Bailey's 2009 book, Small Arms of the British Forces in America 1664-1815 Appendix V, Warrants for arms issued to regiments serving in North America.

First paragraph by Bailey:
"It must be stressed that the date of the warrant is only that, and no more. It does not indicate when the regiment actually received the arms, but only from what date they were authorized to receive them. Once on shore in America, regiments would have been rearmed from local (basically New York City) Ordnance Stores or, if actually on campaign, from the spare parts carried in the Artillery Train. Arms sent over in the name of the regiment would have gone into Ordnance Stores to replace those previously issued to the regiment. The date given under "Arrived in America" is the date on which the regiment went ashore, and there is sometimes considerable variation in these dates in contemporary sources."

Well, back to the drawing board!

Let me take a swag at Nicholson. Perhaps he had only one Long Land in his possession to serve as a Model Musket and thus by necessity had to make 12 copies to send out to the gunsmiths as a Model.

That approach was employed by the US Purveyor's office and after 1816, by the US Ordnance Dept with respect to arms Models contracted for with the various arms contractors.

This is way off subject for this thread so I'll leave it at that.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2024, 02:32:35 AM by WESTbury »
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline spgordon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1328
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2024, 02:54:31 AM »
I get all that—but then why were they waiting for new pattern muskets made by Nicholson?

That is something I cannot speak to.

[snip]

Let me take a swag at Nicholson. Perhaps he had only one Long Land in his possession to serve as a Model Musket and thus by necessity had to make 12 copies to send out to the gunsmiths as a Model.

That approach was employed by the US Purveyor's office and after 1816, by the US Ordnance Dept with respect to arms Models contracted for with the various arms contractors.

This is way off subject for this thread so I'll leave it at that.

Since Ferree received a contract that required him to supply barrels that conformed to the "Philadelphia pattern," this seems on topic to me?

A quick google search (https://emuseum.history.org/objects/10593/pattern-1756-land-service-musket?ctx=5b52eca25c85f1c6e6ce0cd947f6a1f043980ce6&idx=10) indicated that the 1756 Long Land Pattern muskets had 46" barrels: is that correct?

The surviving Nicholson musket, presumably produced according to the Philadelphia pattern, has a 44" barrel. So that's a difference, for starters.

It still seems to me that, if there were lots of 1756 Long Land muskets around, and the muskets demanded by the Pennsylvania counties in 1775 were to be based on/patterned on these, it would have been simpler to tell the counties to use one of the older muskets as a pattern. I would think that new pattern muskets would be needed, in general, only if they differed from the available models.

But I'm just guessing here. A comparison of the Nicholson musket (the Greensboro History Museum collection) with a 1756 Long Land pattern musket would yield more reliable info than my guesswork.
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2024, 03:07:26 AM »
Oh yea! I neglected to mention that Nicholson was well respected in the U.S. Ordnance System and was instrumental in getting Springfield Armory into production in the late 1790's. Final word, I promise.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2024, 05:16:53 AM »


It still seems to me that, if there were lots of 1756 Long Land muskets around, and the muskets demanded by the Pennsylvania counties in 1775 were to be based on/patterned on these, it would have been simpler to tell the counties to use one of the older muskets as a pattern. I would think that new pattern muskets would be needed, in general, only if they differed from the available models.

I believe that those 5000 LLM were probably stored by the Brits, in New York City.

Although perhaps they were in the hands of some members of the Colonial Militia. I'm pretty sure though that the militia units in the 7 Years War were issued pre 1756 Pattern Long Lands. The differences were primarily in the lockplate. The British usually issued newer pattern arms to those units deployed in the European Theatre.

There are some knowledgeable people on this Forum so hopefully they will chime in here. I'm primarily a Springfield Armory guy.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline JTR

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4351
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2024, 06:52:44 PM »
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=69696.0

http://www.ferreedescendants.com/gazetteferreerifle.htm

I thought I'd attach this link to the ones backsplash75 posted to give the end of the Ferree rifle story.
This link shows the progression of the restoration work I did, and the final result.
With the great info that DaveM and Scott posted to start, this link will show the gun as it is today, and help to keep the info together.
Again, many thanks to those that answered my many questions at the time, especially Louie Parker and my ol' buddy Mr No Gold.
John
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=72513.0
« Last Edit: May 23, 2024, 09:49:40 PM by JTR »
John Robbins

Offline backsplash75

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2024, 11:43:09 PM »


It still seems to me that, if there were lots of 1756 Long Land muskets around, and the muskets demanded by the Pennsylvania counties in 1775 were to be based on/patterned on these, it would have been simpler to tell the counties to use one of the older muskets as a pattern. I would think that new pattern muskets would be needed, in general, only if they differed from the available models.

I believe that those 5000 LLM were probably stored by the Brits, in New York City.

Although perhaps they were in the hands of some members of the Colonial Militia. I'm pretty sure though that the militia units in the 7 Years War were issued pre 1756 Pattern Long Lands. The differences were primarily in the lockplate. The British usually issued newer pattern arms to those units deployed in the European Theatre.

There are some knowledgeable people on this Forum so hopefully they will chime in here. I'm primarily a Springfield Armory guy.

the majority of the leftovers here after the F&I were 46 inch barrelled p42s, there were some few 42 inch Marine/Militia muskets here by 1760 (2,000 "Short Musquets of the new pattern for Marines or Militia" to NY). It looks like a lot of the colonies * mostly* copied the current issued arm (pattern 56 long land) for the 1775-76 locally produced guns, some of these local contracts were for 42 inch barrels (MD, SC), but many were 44 inches. Congress recommended 44 inch barrels, which obviously put the locally procured guns right in between the 42 and 46 inch Tower varieties. Then a massive flood of French arms came on over.

https://founders.archives.gov/?q=trumpet&s=1111311111&sa=&r=13&sr=

Quote

Minutes of the Conference between a Committee of Congress, Washington, and Representatives of the New England Colonies, 18[–24] October 1775 [On the 24th the minutes that appear below, together with the committee’s covering report, were dispatched to Philadelphia.]
Minutes of the Conference between a Committee of Congress, Washington, and Representatives of the New England Colonies

ADS: Library of Congress; three ADS, one incomplete: National Archives; incomplete DS: Massachusetts Historical Society7

October 19. 1775.

The Members of the Committee to confer with General Washington met...

...3. What is the best Method of providing Arms for the Troops to be engaged in the new Army?

Agreed that it be recommended to the several Assemblies or Conventions of the respective Colonies to set and keep their several Gunsmiths at Work to manufacture good Firelocks with Bayonets, each Firelock to be made with a good Bridle Lock, ¾ of an Inch in the Bore and of good Substance at the Breech, the Barrel to be 3 feet 8 Inches in Length and a Bayonet of 18 Inches in the Blade, with a Steel Ramrod the upper Loop to be trumpet mouth’d. The Price to be fixed by the Assembly or Convention or Committee of Safety of each Colony. And to import all that can be procured.

Also that the good Arms of all such Soldiers as leave the Service be retained on a Valuation made of them.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2024, 01:52:53 AM by backsplash75 »

Offline spgordon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1328
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2024, 12:53:13 AM »
This is great!; thanks for sharing.

I was trying to find similar "specs" for the muskets that the Pennsylvania assembly required each county to produce (the "Philadelphia pattern") but couldn't find it. I feel I've seen them somewhere but can't remember where.

The Pennsylvania assembly issued its mandate (presumably with specifications) on 30 June 1775 and Nicholson was paid for his pattern muskets in September 1775--so whatever Pennsylvania required in its pattern musket would have been decided before this October 1775 Continental Congress resolution.
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2024, 01:57:05 PM »
Backsplash----Excellent info you posted.

I was remiss in my previous Post to also mention that the barrel lengths of the Pre 1769 Short Land Besses were approx 46" and they had brass tipped wood rammers. I had a nice Grice 1762 dated example years ago. Sold it to feed my Springfield Armory fetish.

Also, had a 1777 Pattern Bess marked to the 79th Regt. That musket was the subject my article in Man at Arms Vol 30, No 5 2008.

This has been a very informative thread.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2024, 03:37:45 PM by WESTbury »
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline cshirsch

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 340
Re: Joel Ferree
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2024, 05:58:30 PM »
J. Feree rifle in untouched, 'in the black' condition.  Converted to percussion.