Author Topic: “Grinding” musket barrels  (Read 1212 times)

Offline rich pierce

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“Grinding” musket barrels
« on: May 22, 2024, 08:34:10 PM »
In the thread on Joel Ferree (cool research) here  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=81309.0 there is reference to forging, boring, and grinding musket barrels. I’m guessing the barrels were formed round-ish using half-round wedges and fullers then ground round in some kind of large grinding setup requiring mill power. I remember seeing pencil drawings of this from Europe. Has anyone seen this replicated or re-created?
Andover, Vermont

Online smart dog

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Re: “Grinding” musket barrels
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2024, 11:42:29 PM »
Hi Rich,
Here is an image from early 19th century Birmingham.


The Spanish actually turned their barrels to refine and polish the round surface.  They used lathes much like wood lathes and firmer chisels and files on a hand tool rest like a wood turner.



dave
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: “Grinding” musket barrels
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2024, 11:51:51 PM »
Thanks, Dave, the top image is the one I was thinking of. Has anyone seen such an immense grinding stone re-created and put into use?
Andover, Vermont

Offline Col. Barnett

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Re: “Grinding” musket barrels
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2024, 02:24:21 AM »
This is a portion of an article from Harpers Weekly in 1864 about musket making in the Norwich Connecticut Armory
 
The interior of the work thus properly ad­vanced, attention is now given to the exterior, and the barrel is placed in a lathe and subjected to the operation of turning, by which its outer surface is reduced, and the various unevennesses removed, as were those of the inside under the action of the augers in the boring. In the turn­ing the piece is maintained in the lathe by the help of mandrels inserted into its two ends, when it revolves so slowly as to bring all parts of its surface gradually under the action of the tool. The barrel has at the same time a slow progress­ive motion, and the instrument, or cutter, to­gether with the rest in which it is secured, both advances and recedes with en even and gradual progression, by means of which the barrel re­ceives the proper taper from the breech to the muzzle. It is through the rotation of the bar­rel though that this part of the work is chiefly accomplished. The most curious feature, to the casual observer of this part of the work, is to see the hard iron curl up under the action of the turning tool, in shavings as smooth and flexible as any which accompany the carpenter's plane.

After the barrel is turned its surface is still further perfected in the grinding rooms, where it is subjected to the action of ponderous and swiftly-revolving stones, against which all parts of it are successively pressed. In this operation the workman manages his piece by holding it on a long iron rod, inserted into the bore, which rod is furnished with a crank-like handle to aid in turning the barrel round and round against the stone.

The barrel is inserted into a hole in the wood­en case - in which the stone is, for safety, enclosed - where it is pressed hard against the stone by the help of a lever placed behind the workman, and against which he leans more or less heavily, according to the force required. These grindstones inure with such velocity, and the reaction of the iron of the barrel upon them is so great, that less than a fortnight's use wears them down from their original diameter of eight feet to the reduced dimensions of two feet, at which point they are rejected and replaced.

The grinding of the barrel was, in former days, esteemed a very dangerous performance, and it is not without its risks at the present time. The stones have been known to burst and to scatter their huge fragments in all direc­tions; sometimes with very fatal results. Such an accident occurred years ago at the Spring­field works, when several of the operatives were thrown down, but no one, fortunately, was seri­ously hurt - the workman who had been grind­ing at the stone having had the good luck to ab­sent himself from his post only a moment or two before the catastrophe. This danger is now very much lessened by the improved methods of securing the stories in their places; and in­stead of the old plan of suspending the ponderous mass on an iron axis passing through a hole cut in the center of the stone, it is now clamped to the axis in such a manner as to avoid the weakening effect of the old way, and the wedg­ing incident to it; and thus, with the decrease of the strain upon it, lessening the liability of the stone to break or burst. Still the labor is more or less unhealthy by reason of the great quanti­ty of fine dust which, escaping from the stone, fills the air, and also in consequence of the great dampness which follows the necessary use of large quantities of water.

Entire article is very interesting but rather long to post here.

Ric

Offline Flint62Smoothie

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Re: “Grinding” musket barrels
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2024, 09:18:31 PM »
Any link to that referenced article Colonel?????
All of my muzzleloaders will shoot into one ragged hole ALL DAY LONG ... it's just the 2nd or 3rd & other shots that tend to open up my groups ... !

Offline WKevinD

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Re: “Grinding” musket barrels
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2024, 01:08:50 AM »
The French method of grinding barrels from "Fabrique Des Armes" L'encyclopedie/ Diderot
I wish I could read the French descriptions. For me it's a great picture book.
Kevin




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Offline Habu

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Re: “Grinding” musket barrels
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2024, 07:40:33 AM »
There's a guy over in Louisa County IA (I usually refer to it as "Baja Illinois") who has a roughly 6' diameter stone about 32"-34" wide set up.  He's talked about grinding barrels but as far as I know hasn't done anything like that with it. 

The drive set up isn't strictly traditional.  He couldn't get permission to dam a creek to make a millpond, so it is set up on babbitt bearings and a slack-belt off an overhead drive shaft.  The stone would need to be dressed before something as long as a barrel could be ground, but I've used it in some time studies for knife-grinding.  That stone is scary when it gets moving.

Offline Philip A.

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Re: “Grinding” musket barrels
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2024, 10:54:06 AM »
The French method of grinding barrels from "Fabrique Des Armes" L'encyclopedie/ Diderot
I wish I could read the French descriptions. For me it's a great picture book.
Kevin





That's a machine for fluting barrels (if the meaning has remained the same over the centuries). You can send me the french text, I'll translate it.
Never seen a steak trying to look like tofu...

Offline Daryl

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Re: “Grinding” musket barrels
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2024, 07:09:21 PM »
Looks like a rifling (inside fluting) machine to me.
Daryl

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Offline Col. Barnett

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Re: “Grinding” musket barrels
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2024, 01:46:35 PM »
Found this article received from someone on here years ago describing the methods used at Springfield Armory.  Hope you find it interesting.

Ric

Notes: "Correspondence of the N.Y. Journal of Commerce - Armory at Springfield, Mass. Springfield, Mass. October, 1840 - I omitted in my last letter describing the late change in construction of the musket, that the cost of the musket constructed upon the new model would probably exceed that of the old about two dollars. It will be some weeks before this is ascertained with precision. They were manufactured before at $11.70 each.
The remaining subject of interest which occupied my attention at the public works, here, was the process of fabrication. The iron used (which is malleable) is obtained for the most part from the Salisbury mines in Connecticut; it comes in bars 3 3-4 inches wide, 3-4 of an inch thick, and 8 or 10 feet long, the length not being material. The stock is manufactured from black walnut, obtained in Pennsylvania; it is purchased roughly sawed somewhat in shape of a musket. The steel and many tools used in the workshops, are purchased chiefly in the city of New York.
For these materials the musket is fabricated, each part, even to a screw, being made at the works. Many of the tools and much of the machinery are also made there, as old ones decay, or as improvements are suggested. Most of the work upon the stock is done by means of water power, and it comes from the machinery nearly ready to be united with the barrel. Your readers being mooer familiar with work of this nature than with the construction of the barrel, I have deemed it best to omit any particular description of it, though the process is interesting.
The bar of iron is taken to the forging shop, and it is cut into clumps or pieces weighing 10 pounds and a half, called scalps. Each scalp is designated for a barrel to weigh 4 pounds 2 ounces and a half, to which weight it is reduced in the process of manufacture. It has been ascertained that a less quantity than 10 1-2 pounds of iron at the outset cannot be used with safety, inasmuch as a smaller quantity cannot be welded truly. The weight of the iron to be cut from the bar is ascertained by immersing the end of it in a vessel of certain dimensions filled to a particular point with water. The bar is lowered till the water rises to the top of the vessel, and the water-line thus marked upon the bar indicates the quantity wanted, and by that line the scalp is cut.
The principle of this mode of measurement is simply this, that the iron of this manufacture being of uniform density, the same quantity of surface will always produce the same weight. The scalp is cut between the blades of an immense pair of shears driven by water-power, and is severed from the bar as easily as a lady may cut a thread. The piece cut off is about a foot long, and it is then laid with others in a furnance, and heated to a white heat, and immediately passed between the rollers of a rolling-mill (which, are also driven by water power) and drawn out to the length of 36 inches: the width remains the same. This forms what is called the barrel plate. The length of the barrel when finished is 42 inches, to which the barrel-plate is extended in the future work.
It next goes into the welding shop, where it is heated to a white heat in two minutes and a half, and then laid open a concave die or anvil, when with a trip-hammer it is curved longitudinally (the edges being tuThe trip-hammer is a huge one, and driven by water-power, and strikes 700 times in a minute: it can be applied or withheld from operation with great ease. A mandril or cylindrical rod, about half an inch in diameter, is then laid in the curve of the barrel-plate, one side of which is turned over and hammered upon the rod, and the other tapped over-that about an inch. The part overlapping is to be united firmly to the other by a process called welding. This is to be done by heating it again to a white heat, and placing it upon the die or anvil, and welding it together around the rod; by the means of the trip-hammer the work is done in sections of 7 or 8 inches at a time.
It is 13 times heated and as often held under the trip-hammer before the edges of the barrel-plate are firmly welded together, and each time it receives about 50 blows. The room in which the welding is done presents a very animated appearance as you look upon the sparks flying form a dozen anvils, and hear the tremendous blow's of the trip-hammer, and observe the workmen moving briskly in their work. So intense is the heat (which is produced by a bellows driven by water-power) that in 1 minute and 3-4 the white heat is reproduced, and in 2 minutes the iron would melt. The English fire-brick last only 7 or 8 days in the furnance. In this stage, the article first assumes the name of a barrel, the tube of which is much smaller than the intended bore. So firmly is it united, that the eye cannot distinguish where it was done. The operation of welding has increased the length of the barrel to 43 inches. The barrels, (the rods being removed) are now laid into the iron pans and heated to a red heat to be annealed, which most of your readers well know to be designed for softening the iron, and producing equality in the parts, so that it may be more easily worked. The application of gradual heat evens it. It remains in the pans about 24 hours. Were it not for this process any hard places in the iron would take off the point of a chisel, in the subsequent work.
The barrels are ready for rough boring, and they are taken into the shop and each barrel is fastened in an iron frame lying horizontally, and a circular twisted auger 9-16 of an inch in diameter is drawn through the bore; another auger of 11-16 is then drawn through, and in the process about 2 oz. of the bore is removed. The auger is worked by waterpower, and makes around 1200 turns a minute; about 15 minutes are consumed in the process.
The rough boring being accomplished, the barrels are now ready for a finer process.
A square auger moved also by water power is now drawn through them 4 or 5 times. The auger cuts light to accomplish which a small strip of soft wood is passed through with the auger which occasions it to yield.
The interior of the barrel being bright and tolerably smooth, it is held up to the light for the purpose of detecting any irregularities, (these are easily discovered by the eye,) and it is then straightened, hammer being employed in the work, with which blows are struck on the exterior.
These were formerly detected by running a line made of hair through the barrel, drawn tight, and by this guage the surface was measured: but the other process is more simple and effectual. In holding the barrel up to the light a range is taken with one of the pieces of the window-sash which divides the panes of glass perpendicularly, and the shade from this being thrown into the barrel, it is the line of shade which discloses an irregularity. Whenever the line is crooked, the barrel at the point needs straightening.
The completes the first boring, as it is called, designed to take out metal rapidly.
The next workmen conduct the second boring designed to smooth the bore: the work is done with augers which revolve only 50 or 60 times in a minute; they are passed through two or three times, removing about half an ounce of metal, and the barrel again undergoes straightening with blows from a hammer.
The barrel has already been inspected occasionaIt is now carried to the milling shop, the machinery of which is also driven by water-power, and here the end of the barrel is cut off to within the 16th of an inch of its proper length, which is 42 inches, the overplus is left to prevent injury from jams, and is subsequently removed by the same process. The end is milled of slowly, one or two minutes being consumed in doing it. The workman who attends to this, bores the lower end of the barrel for tapping, i.e. for forming the thread to hold the screw of the breech. The counter boring extends about an inch into the barrel, and is made the one-eight of an inch wider than the residue of the bore, and into this when the thread is formed the screw of the breech is inserted.
The barrel is now ready to be turned on the exterior, which is done by fastening it so that it is held horizontally in machinery, and the barrel is then turned against a chisel - the force being still water. It takes about 15 minutes to turn it, and in the process two pounds of the metal are taken off. The machine into which the barrel is fastened guides it against the chisel its whole length (except at the breech) and stops itself.
The barrel then goes into a second machine which turns the breech in an oval and flat shape, with the same movement. Now for the first time guages are applied to the barrel by the Inspector to ascertain its size, (the guage being the precise shape of the groove of the stock at the place where it receives the barrel, the stock in turn being guaged by an instrument of the precise shape of the barrel,) if the barrel does not fit the guage, it is turned until this is accomplished.
This work crooks the barrel more or less, and it again undergoes the process of straightening, and is once more inspected. Another workman in the milling-shop now takes the barrel and mills the muzzle for the bayonet socket; here the work become careful inasmuch as there is no subsequent alteration of it in this part.
In order to fit the bayonet properly, the barrel at the muzzle is made to taper less than the 100th part of an inch in two inches and a half. It is brought into the shape by milling off the exterior so as to fit nicely the guages, (which are formed by the socket of the bayonet) three guages being used in the work. The muzzle is passed through a die driven by machinery and containing cutting edges, and as it passes through the metal is milled off.
The barrel next goes into the grinding-shop where about two ounces are taken from the exterior; whilst this being done, guages are applied to every eight inches of the work. The stones in the shop are 6 feet in diameter, and are driven with water-power, and revolve about 300 times a minute. Some time ago one of these huge stones whilst moving at great speed broke into many fragments which were thrown with great violence through the floor into the milling-shop above. Fortunately the workmen were then out. The walls are two feet thick, and are battered so as to be unfit for use. Formerly much of the work was done with the grindstone; but the use of it has lately been dispensed with, in a great degree, and milling substituted in its place. The other process fills the room with fine particles of dust from the barrel, which is inhaled with injury by the men, who, during work are compelled to sit over the stone. Few of those who worked at this occupation 10 years ago are now alive. Milling, on the contrary, is performed without injury by the most slender men. The barrels are being ground are again subjected to inspection and from 6 to 8 per cent, are usually condemned for defects now disclosed. They are also weighed, and if the weight be less than 4 lbs. 5 ozs. they are rejected. Those of less weight cannot get through the subsequent work.
They next go into a shop or small place is cut on the muzzle, to braze on the stud which holds the bayonet. After the stud is brazed on, the barrel is taken to the borer to be straightened, and bored again nearly to the finish size, about 3/8 or anThe powder used in proving the barrel must be strong enough to project a 24 lb. shot, held by a large wadding, 300 yards from an Eprouvette or proving instrument. The first proof of the barrel is made with a charge of 1-22 and balls of 15 to a pound, held with treble or quadruple the quantity of wadding necessary in ordinary use. They are proved in a stoutly built "log cabin."
The barrels, about 40 in number, when loaded with this charge are laid in horizontal trenches about an inch apart, and pointing towards a bank of clay; a train or powder is then poured over the breech covering the vent or touch hold of each musket; and is continued outside of the building where it is fired. About two out every forty barrels are burst in the operation, and the balls are every one torn to pieces in the clay.
The barrels are now inspected to see what flaws appear, and 4 or 5 per cent, are condemned for bad materials or shape.
The breech is next screwed in, and it undergoes the process of milling, (guages being applied in the work) and the stud is also milled and the barrel sent to the filer so that he may adjust the breech to his receiving jig, which it must exactly fit. The receiving jig, corresponds with that part of the stock where the breech falls in. Some one else is preparing the stock for the breech.
The barrels are again inspected and examined carefully and marked U.S. and with characters signifying that they are approved.
A cylindrical hole is now drilled into the barrel with machinery for a more perfect vent or touch hole, and this is punched into a conical shape, the punch being used, to give the surrounding iron more firmness than it would have if the hole was drilled into the same form. The surface raised by the process of punching is next filed off and the tang of the breech is then drilled, through which the cross pin or tang screw passes, to screw the stock to the breech.
Now they are unbreached and the borer and straightener taken them again.
The next process is that of polishing, and for this purpose the barrels are secured in machinery and they are run up and down like the piston of a steam engine through a material which polishes the exterior. About 3/4 of an ounce of metal is taken off in the process. They pass up and down 2000 times in 20 minutes.
They are again slightly bored and straightened, and again polished longitudinally, the motion being also rotary to make their surface entirely round.
The borer and straightener again receives them to remove any slight imperfections; after this they are again inspected, (plugs being applied to the bore, and other gauging instruments being used,) and the barrels are weighed. The weight should now be 4 lbs. 2 1/2 oz. exclusive of the breech. One ounce is allowed for variation.
The barrel being ready to go into the stock, is sent to the stocking room, where large quantities of the several parts of the musket are collected, and here the union of the several parts takes place.
After this happens the master armorer tries them with the flint and gives them a final inspection, marks them with his stamp and they are then stored away.
About 100,000 now stand in stocks and 60,000 are packed in boxes in the arsenal, the rejected barrels are sold at auction, and they are purchased by gun smiths to work up into cheap muskets and fowling pieces. There are 20,000 on hand which are presently to be sold.
The scraps made in the work are thrown into the furnace, and about 80 tons of iron are made from them annually. With this iron part of the locks and mountings, &c., are made, the iron being run into the shape most convenient for the use intended.
Four furnaces are kept in action, two for making iron from scraps and two for rolling.
It would be curious to ascertain the work upon each private part of the musket, and how minute the divisions of labor are; but I have consumed too much time already. The filing of the lock plate even The officers consist of 1 superintendent, (Col. Robb, who was a Lieutenant at the battle of New Orleans, and afterwards Chief Clerk of the War Department,) 1 master armorer, Mr. Thomas Warner, (who has been 30 years in the establishment, and who with great politeness accompanied me over the works,) 1 paymaster, 4 clerks, 9 inspectors and 250 forgers, 4 bayonet forgers, 2 ramrod forgers, 10 mounting forgers, 4 trip hammer men, 22 assistant forgers, 1 annealer, 9 borers, 8 turners and drillers, 8 grinders, 4 barrel straighteners, 38 lock filers, 24 mounting filers, 9 polishers, 29 stockers, 7 barrel finishers, 7 lock finishers, 13 arm finishers and 36 jobbers, to wit, 3 smiths, 4 filers, 6 carpenters and 23 laborers.
The work is said to be of a very superior kind, the perfection attained having been reached by long experience, and the employment of the most skillful and sagacious men. The employment here being preferred owing to the regularity of the work and the pay and various circumstances which Springfield attractive as a residence. The men are seldom changed.
I was pleased with a circumstance related to me to show how steadiness was aimed at. One workman skillful in other respects could not file his work straight, inasmuch as his arm described a rocking motion which the file represented on the work; in order however to secure him in the armory, the work to be filed was screwed in a vice which rocked with the arm and thus the work was done properly.
This little device saved the man from idleness, for filing had become almost his sole occupation, and was useful in exhibiting to the laborers the spirit of the institution towards them.
It was creditable to the ingenuity and kind disposition of the master armorer Thomas Warner. - United States Commercial Statistical Register, Vol. III, No. 20. Ed. by Samuel Hazard

References:
Ball, Robert W.D. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY: SHOULDER WEAPONS 1795-1968. Antique Trader Book. Norfolk, Va. 1997.
Clark, David C. Ed. ARMS FOR THE NATION. Scott A. Duff. Export, Pa. 1992.
Flayderman, Norm. FLAYDERMAN'S GUIDE TO ANTIQUE AMERICAN FIREARMS...AND THEIR VALUES. 6th Ed. DBI Books Inc. Northbrook, Il. 1994.
Gluckman, Arcadi. IDENTIFYING OLD U.S. MUSKETS, RIFLES AND CARBINES. Stackpole Books. Harrisburg, Pa. 1965.
Hartzler, Daniel D. & James B. Whisker. THE NORTHERN ARMORY: THE UNITED STATES ARMORY AT SPRINGFIELD, MASSACHUSETTS, 1795-1859. Old Bedford Village Press. Bedford, Pa. 1996.
Madaus, H. Michael. THE WARNER COLLECTOR'S GUIDE TO AMERICAN LONGARMS. Warner Books. N.Y., N.Y. 1981.
Moeller, George D. AMERICAN MILITARY SHOULDER ARMS. VOL. 2. University Press of Colorado. Niwot, Co. 1993.
Reilly, Robert. U.S. MARTIAL FLINTLOCKS. Andrew Mowbray Inc. Lincoln, R.I. 1986.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: “Grinding” musket barrels
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2024, 03:02:59 PM »
They really had it down to a system!
Andover, Vermont

Online Jim Kibler

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Re: “Grinding” musket barrels
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2024, 07:40:28 PM »
This is really fascinating stuff.  Especially from someone who manufactures guns today.  How much easier we have it!

Offline 2 shots

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Re: “Grinding” musket barrels
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2024, 08:08:02 PM »
 indeed... we just pickup the phone and call you. ;)

Offline JH Ehlers

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Re: “Grinding” musket barrels
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2024, 09:21:10 PM »
Very interesting history. a Video of large grindstone quarrying.
Where are the young men?