Ramrod broken off in ramrod hole

[frogwalking]

I sincerely hope I am not the first idiot to have done something like this.  I found my nice tapered hickory ramrod to be tight where it passed through the transition between the lower ramrod pipe and the hole in the wood.  (Not lined up perfectly).  I had another tapered rod, one of the African wood ones sold by TOW, that I had previously decided not to use.  I glued some sand paper around this rod and used it to smooth up the transition where the restriction was.  This is where my mind failed me.  Rather than stroking and turning the rod by hand, I chucked the rod in my drill, and began to really make a difference in the rough spot.  This was working great right before the soft wood rod sheared off right at the entrance to the lower thimble.   

Any good suggestions?  I have some ideas, but my ideas got me into this mess.

[Roger Fisher]

#@!! $#@* or some such!! 

My suggestion probably not the right one; but sounds as though you are only in there an inch or 2??  Get hold of a ramrod drill bit slightly smaller and work at it slowly - get a hole thru it - then go the tapered rat tail file route (with it's tail bent up to get hold of it) and work it back to where you were before you erred in judgement.  Then smooth her out carefully.. 

If all else fails drill her out just enough to enter a short faux ramrod and carry a range rod....you wouldn't be the first guy to do that!

[wvmtnman]

I would try to use a ball puller to pull it out.  Use a mallet to slightly pound the puller into the rod the turn the rod so that it screws into the broken rod. Then pull it out.  Once the rod is out, do the rat tail file trick stated by Roger.
                                                                     Brian

[Tom Currie]

Just thinkin here but judicious use of a pin inserted through the web into the broken pin, from the barrell channel, would be helpful in holding the broken ramrod fixer in place while you are either attempting the drill an end hole into it or trying to get a ball puller screw twisted into it. The last thing you want to do is drive it further into the rr hole.   

[roundball]

"...ramrod to be tight where it passed through the transition between the lower ramrod pipe and the hole in the wood.  (Not lined up perfectly)..."
 

Really sorry to hear that but based on suggestions already coming forward I bet you'll be able to get it out...just go slow and think it through...don't make matters worse, etc.
My Virginia was the same way...had to use a T-handle to get the ramrod in and out.
Thought it was the forward lock bolt but finally discovered the entry pipe was not aligned correctly with the ramrod hole/channel.

I ordered a 3/8" drill bit that had a 36" x 1/4" steel shaft attached and planned to use a VERY slow rotation of the variable speed drill to gently turn the bit in the wood right behind the entry pipe.  However, I found that the bit was loose down in the ramrod hole itself...only when the bit was bridged between the entry pipe and the ramrod hole did it bind, showing that the entry pipe was not installed/aligned correctly.  And based upon cautions from Birddog6, I was afraid to let the bit run while it was bridged through the entry pipe itself for fear it would snag/rip the pipe out.

So since I like a brass ramrod for its utility, and it happens to blend with the Virginia's brass furniture, I used brass for the ramrod as follows:
Using Red Loc-Tite, I married a 33" tubular brass rod I had on hand so as not to add much more weight than wood...to a 6" piece of solid brass ramrod stock I had on hand...the 6" solid was tapered from 3/8" down to 5/16".  Then a couple minutes turning the 4-5 inch area around the joint on a belt sander reduced it just enough more so it slides in and out now like it should and the taper also misses the front lock bolt.

Being that the tapered end is solid brass its still as strong as an Ox and the joint...barely noticeable anyway...is out of sight down inside past the entry pipe...the only time I'll use the underbarrel rod will be while out hunting.

[David Rase]

Not knowing all the particulars I will throw in my 2 cents worth and hope I am not too far off base.  If I understand your problem correctly the misalignment is between the entry pipe and the ramrod hole.  The dowel is sheared off flush with the entry pipe.  If the twisted off dowel is loose in the ramrod hole could you push the broken off ramrod further into the ramrod hole until it clears the entry pipe, remove the entry pipe and then remove the ramrod?  
Option 2, and I say this because I don't know if you have a ramrod drill or not, which would be my option 1 since I own a set of ramrod drills would be to use the thimbles and ramrod channel as a guide and drill out the soft sheared off ramrod.
Good luck.  I am sure between all of us 'Monday morning gunsmiths" you will get the right advise and your problem will be resolved.
DMR

[Dave B]

I would take Tim's suggestion about going through the web. I would use an angled hole going towards the ram rod entry hole and use a coat hanger wire to tap the broken section back out. The use of a regular drill bit to start the hole at the most shallow angle you can get. You can now take a section of coat hanger and flatten one end then grind a  point making it into a small spade bit. You should be able to get a nice low angle hole using this to finish the hole. Take and blunt the end of the rod, It may require bending the hanger rod just a little so it stays in the ram rod hole. Thats the way I would do it.

[Roger Fisher]

Not knowing all the particulars I will throw in my 2 cents worth and hope I am not too far off base.  If I understand your problem correctly the misalignment is between the entry pipe and the ramrod hole.  The dowel is sheared off flush with the entry pipe.  If the twisted off dowel is loose in the ramrod hole could you push the broken off ramrod further into the ramrod hole until it clears the entry pipe, remove the entry pipe and then remove the ramrod?  
Option 2, and I say this because I don't know if you have a ramrod drill or not, which would be my option 1 since I own a set of ramrod drills would be to use the thimbles and ramrod channel as a guide and drill out the soft sheared off ramrod.
Good luck.  I am sure between all of us 'Monday morning gunsmiths" you will get the right advise and your problem will be resolved.
DMR

Seems as if trying the least damaging suggestions first would make sense.  I like the ball puller idea in particular if you do not have access to a long drill bit.  I do wonder if the puller would split and expand the broken piece and end up tightening the bugger worse?  I like also the idea of a pin driven in to the  jammed piece from the channel to hold it til you get the puller in to the beasty.  I wonder also if judicious use of some light oil alongside of the stuck piece would help (if you can get the oil where its needed!)  Combination of a couple things here should do the job...   Let us know how it goes!! curious folks need to know

[Ted Kramer]

Something very similar to your problem happened to a fella for whom I built a rifle when he tried to make his ramrod  fit a bit "looser" in the hole. He wrapped some sandpaper around a cleaning jag that was attached to the ramrod and it snapped off with the end of the jag stopping about 2 inches past the entry pipe inside the stock.
He lived not far from me so he brought it here for me to look at. Several attempts with a ball puller only resulted in splitting the rod and making it tighter. I then  took the bbl out and tapped the broken end of the ramrod in just enough so I could remove the entry pipe. With a 1/16" bit,  I drilled from barrel channel into the ramrod hole until I located the end of the jag. Then , just past the jag, I drilled a 5/16" hole into the rod hole, bent a 1/4" rod to look somewhat like an "L" shape, inserted first the short end into the hole and tapped lightly against the jag to move it towards the entry hole, then put the longer end of the "L" in the hole and was able to tap it out. I removed the entry pipe just in case the jag put undue pressure on the pipe as it came out, it could split the wood at the pin hole.
Hope you are able to get yours out.

Ted K.

[Dphariss]

If wedged tight its not likely to come out with a ball puller.
May have to drill it out.
Dan

[Roger Fisher]

Similar to what Ted Kramer suggests; if you would find the section if any that is sticking in the hole beyond the pipe (deeper in the rr hole) then cut a narrow slot in to the web then go in to the slot with a pointed chisel or better yet some type of chisel that would bend before it would break (ugh) then (after a little oil soak job) pry/lever the stuck piece out.  Just another 2 cents worth.  After you are successful, affix a piece of wood back into the web ( but not in to the rr hole) a bit of glue and your back in business and no longer laying awake at night nor fighting with the wife

[Rootsy]

If you are going to try to screw anything into the broken rod you need to pilot it first.  This keeps the rod from expanding due to displaced fibers upon fastener insertion.  Drill that pilot hole the minor diameter of whatever wood screw you wish to use.

How do you drill that hole?  Take a hardwood dowel of appropriate diameter and use the next size smaller drill (whichever number / letter it may be) to drill it at center to a depth of say 1 inch (whatever the smooth shank length is on the drill bit you will be using.  Now take that drill bit you are going to use to pilot the broken rod for the screw and with a piece of hardwood or brass and a mallet, apply a bit of epoxy in that hole and tap it home (non fluted end goes into the drill rod).  Helps to put a bit of chamfer on the hole (drill bit should already have a chamfer on it).

Lay that drill rod in the channel and chuck it up in your electric drill.  Using a fast spindle speed and a shallow peck pilot the broken rod.  You don't want to load the drill bit too heavily for fear of sticking it in the broken rod and spinning it in the dowel rod.  This is why you take a short beck, back it out and clean the flutes... You will get to depth eventually.

Now take a piece of steel rod (any size smaller than the ramrod is fine) and braze the appropriate screw to the end.  leave a good foot hanging out the end of the stock for length.  Drill a hole in a piece of round stock or hardwood stock, anything with some weight and thread it on the rod.  Braze or weld a nut on the end.  You now have a slide hammer.  Using a wrench on that nut screw that rod into the broken ramrod.  Gently tap that weight back against that nut.  The impact and deceleration will transfer the inertia to the broken rod and should work it out of the hole.  Don't get too froggy with it as you don't want to pull the fastener out of the broken rod or worse yet break the wood screw off.    If using a piece of hardwood I would put a washer between it and the welded nut. 

[roundball]

Another possibility if brazing/welding is not available.....the brass caliber size collar should come off of most if not all ball pullers.

Use a ramrod with only the ball puller screw itself attached.

Screw a T-handle onto the other end.

Screw the ball puller screw into the pilot on the brokern wooden rod.

Then loosely hold the jaws of a pair of pliars around the shaft and gently slide/tap upwards against the T of the T-handle to get the slide hammer effect

[Ky-Flinter]

I'm leery of the oil suggestion.  That "African" wood seems soft and porous to me...  I'm afraid it would soak up the oil and swell.  Just my 2 cents.

-Ron

[frogwalking]

My first plan is to make a ball puller but using a 5/16 inch steel rod from Lowe's and a 3 inch sheetrock screw.  I will drill a pilot hole first using the same rig and soldering the drill and later screw into a hole drilled in the end of the rod.  If none of this works, I will try some of the other plans.  The 4 or 5 inch piece of dowel is coming out one way or another.  I have put way too much effort into this rifle to have a fake ramrod hanging in the thimbles.

[Jerry V Lape]

Drill with a very small drill, less than a 1/16th" along the web until you find the end of the stub.  Then either the angled hole with coat hanger, or the slotted hole with an allen wrench should let you get it out.  No need to do a thing with the holes afterward, sets up any future fixes you might need in there anyway.  If you do this sort of thing regularly you might even inlet a thin brass plate as a trap door over the slot and call it a design improvement.   

[JTR]

Maybe I just missed reading it, but why not just knock the pin out of the ramrod pipe, and with it free to move about a little, it might align the busted off rod with the hole enough to just let it slip out?
John

[Birddog6]

Here is what I would do.

Take the barrel out.  From what i understand, you have 2-3" of rod stuck, right ?
carefully tap the rod in deeper to clear the Entrypipe tube. Should only need to go 1" or so ?
Now try to get the Entrypipe off & leave a 1/4" or so of the RR pipe exposed. If need be cut back the hole just a tad that the rear of the entrypipe covers to expose the RR.

Now that you have it exposed, drill a 1/8" hole into the RR  like you are going to put a 1/8" pin thru it.

Now take a air hose & with someone blowing the sanding dust down in the hole that has it jammed, put the tip of a 1/8" punch in the hole you drilled in the RR & work it Rotating it back & forth (not in & out) & loosen that jammed dust. Keep the air on it while doing it as to blow it out of the jam.  When it is loose, then pull the RR piece out.  DON"T horse it. Be slow & careful & don't make things worse like breaking off the punch & etc.  Also the paper may be jammed as you were rotating.  If so, you may have to turn the RR counterclockwise to loosen it.  May require 2 holes, NOT inline, one past the other one. Turn one, go to other hole & turn, back to original hole, etc.  Again I stress, do not horse it...... work it til it is loose.

I have taken one out similar to this one time.  The problem was not caused the same way, but result was the same. This guy jammed a RR in & tried to force it in, then couldn't get it out & then he tried twisting it & it was a Rapine rod & it snapped about 3/4" inside the Entrypipe.  This is how I got it out only instead of
dust jamming it, it was forced jammed tight & I  sprayed a tad of silicon spray in there to lube it, but did the drilled hole & punch insert & worked it back & forth & pulled it out.

Keith

[holzwurm]

I don't know how much flack and artillery fire I'm going to experience for this but I've had one success doing it this way.

Remove the barrel. Very carefully measure and remove a section of the bottom flat some distance behind the entry pipe down into the RR channel. Only remove enough width to equal the diameter of the channel in the middle of the flat.  Tap the broken RR piece into that space and you can lift it out.  If there is a lot of RR you can chisel it out in small pieces.

Next - inlet a small piece of stock wood to cover the slot you made into the RR channel being careful not to close off any of the RR channel diameter. Once the patch is dry finish off the bottom flat.

[frogwalking]

   See my earlier reply no. 14.  It worked fine and 7 inches of sandpaper wrapped wood ramrod came out of the hole.  I then glued the sand paper on the steel rod and finished the job.  Thanks to all for the suggestions and support. 

Now that I am no longer encumbered by a job    I  may be able to finish it and then begin on the fowler.