New .36 cal Rifle....Start of work on brass patchbox....

[rich pierce]

Rich,

Yes.  I make up the trigger / plate assembly and then inlet it into the stock to get the distance to the sear I want.  No more difficult to lay out than the conventional pinning through the stock....with the added advantage that I don't have a hole showing up at an inconvenient location on the opposite side of the stock when I inlet the side plate.....

Thanks! Basically as we would a trigger pinned through the stock.

[davec2]

Flatsguide,

Dave Pearson did this on one of his locks and was kind enough to explain the process to me.....so my thanks again to Dave for his expertise and generosity in helping me. 

Both the lock plate and the cock had a beveled edge.  Where it wasn't beveled quite enough, I filed it a little wider.  Then, with a 90 degree graver, I cut a deep groove right along the very top edge of the bevel and another at the very bottom edge.  Then I used a wide flat graver to shape the steel between the two edge cuts removing material and rounding toward the center.  This is, of course, a little "lumpy" and I tried very hard not to remove too much steel in any one place.  To smooth out the surface now I used needle files, riflers, and then some soft stones that took on the shape of the molding.  Didn't really take all that long....it only amounts to a few inches of molding total.

As is my usual MO, it has been a while since I picked up a graver, so I always start on the trigger and trigger plate to get the feel back.  If I really mess up, these parts are easily replaced.....and if I only mess up a little (as in this case) I'm ok with it since the engraving is hard to see once the rifle is assembled.  (I know....I know....do your best work.....but sometimes "good enough" is.....well.....good enough.... )

Trigger and plate....a little touch of kinda OK engraving....and then I case hardened the trigger bar.....

[flatsguide]

Dave and Dave Pearson, thanks for sharing the technique you use to sculpt the lock molding. I’ll put that to use. Thanks again.
Very nice engraving, always a pleasure to see your work.
Cheers Richard

[davec2]

Got the trigger guard bent to fit the contour of the stock and inlet....



Then went to work removing any wood that didn't look like it belonged on a very slender .36 caliber rifle.....














Next step is to make lock bolts, a tang bolt, ram rod ends, and then modify the barrel keys for their spring retainers.  After all that comes the hard part....trying to decide the designs for what to carve and what to engrave....

[davec2]

Most of the shaping done.  Some sanding done.  I decided to cut a decorative molding on the forstock as I usually do.  I like a more complicated molding including a concave surface.  I used the brass tool I made to run in the ram rod groove and make a nice clean, easy to do, concave cut all along the groove.  Then made a second cut with a sharper edged cutter to make a second cut line......






Molding done.....

[davec2]

As noted previously, now starts the hard part.....the design of carving, engraving, patch box, etc., etc.  Twelve years ago I posted the following picture here on ALR.  Two rifles, the top one by John Noll and the bottom one by George Nunnamacher 1797.  I asked back then if anyone had a lead to more detailed photos of either (or better yet both) of these rifles.



I didn't have much luck and thought I would ask again as I would like to incorporate some of these design elements in this new rifle.  In 2012 I made a rifle for my brother-in-law.  On that rifle I partially mimicked the Noll patch box design here.....



But I would like to do something a bit different this time around and would like to see other parts of the Noll and / or Nunnamacher rifles.  Does anyone have a lead on more and better pictures of these rifles ??

Thanks

[Jim Kibler]

That Nunnamacher is killer.  I've always loved it.  Seems I remember financial problems or some other issues as his life progressed.  Can't remember the details.  Maybe someone else knows.  I guess this is the only example of his work?

Jim

[Bill Madden]

Dave,
The Nunnamaker rifle is at the Winterthur Museum. It can be viewed in the digital library under Object No. 1997.0037. There are about a dozen photos, some not too bad. I believe someone recreated this rifle sometime in the last 10 years or so and posted some specifics regarding the build on this site, but I haven't looked for it. I have always been intriged by this rifle, but doubt I'll ever get around to trying to build it.
Regards, Bill

[smart dog]

Hi Dave,
It is hard to beat John Nolls.  There are two wonderful Nolls' guns in David Hansen's book "An Intimate Look at the American Long Rifle".  I think it is sold by the Kentucky Rifle Foundation.  They also sell fantastic CDs with detailed photos of hundreds of long rifles.  Their volume 1 issue 6 has a nice Nolls gun but I suspect they have many more.

dave

[Osprey]

Been hoping you'd get back to that Nunnamacher!

[oldtravler61]

  Dave I've always been impressed with you an smartdogs workmanship.!
  My reason for comment is I make all my trigger plates similar to yours.
  Just because I've goofed up the pin through the stock trick.   lol 

[davec2]

Been a hectic few days.  Medical issues for a family member....will require some recovery.....

Meanwhile, I wanted to thank those of you who sent info and comments about the Nunnamacher and Noll rifles.  Found some additional photos.  Not sure where I am going with this yet but at least have more information to work with.

While I am deciding, I completed the barrel keys.  As I have done in the past, I milled a slot in the body of the keys and then riveted a very thin leaf spring in the slot.  Eliminates the issue of fitting keys "just right" and then having things wear or having the change in humidity make the keys too loose or to tight.

[flatsguide]

That’s a clever idea using a leaf spring to take up slack Dave.
 I’m getting ready to fit a barrel tenon and noticed that most folks here use a dimensional copy of the tenon and carefully burn the mortise for a close fit. My question is is the “burning” done all the way through from one side of the stock to the other? Years ago I had a beautiful Nock 14 ga. SxS that I hunted with for years and after more than 100 years the tenon still was a smooth snug fit and one did not need any tool to remove the tenon…I hope I can replicant that fit.
Thanks Richard

[mountainman]

Peter Alexander had a few photos of that particular John Noll rifle in his book by the Gunsmith of Grenville Co. there were various photo aspects throughout the book. I had asked him questions about that specific rifle in his book, and that's when he showed me the various photos in his book, when I asked about the original and the possibility of getting a closer look he seemed rather evasive. I made 2 copies, or at least tried to make it as close as I could to the original, the hardest part was to get the exact details on engravings and the shape of the thumbpiece on the top end of it, although you see it on a bottom angle.
Since then I've talked to others, to my understanding that original is owned by a private collector somewhere in western Pennsylvania, who is not really interested in an exhibit.
Sure would be nice to see it in public someday.

[Bsharp]

Dave, I enjoy all your fine work!

How thick of a spring do you use on the barrel keys?

[davec2]

Flatsguide....I did burn the mortise all the way through the stock from one side and the barrel keys fit fine...in the unfinished stock.  On a previous rifle I built in 2014 with a walnut stock, I did the same thing and the key fit was great.  But when the weather changed, the keys either got too loose or to tight.  I'm not sure how the old masters did this, but having only done this on two rifles now, I'm not that good at it.  The springs make up for what I lack in talent....

Mountainman....Thanks for the additional information on a Noll rifle.  I have that book but did not remember there were some pictures of a Noll rifle in it.  I will take a look. I seem to be attracted to rifles like this that are in the private hands of owners that don't want anyone else to see much about the rifle design.  I posted the following picture trying to track down some additional photos of a contemporary rifle built by Stephen Alexander.  One of the members here sent me an old MuzzleBlasts magazine with a few additional, very small, black & white photos.  After some considerable effort, I finally tracked down Stephen and he led me to the photographer who took the pictures for the "Man at Arms" magazine ad.  The photographer only had the one photo and Stephen told me the owner of the rifle didn't ever want to show it to anyone or have any additional photos taken.   Just my luck I guess.



Bsharp....Thanks for the kind words.  The springs are cut from 0.010" thick spring stock.

[Clowdis]

Never thought of using springs in the barrel keys but it sure looks like a great idea.

[Steeltrap]

The last rifle I built I used keys. The idea of a spring to hold the keys when in the process of pulling or replacing the barrel is a great one. Invariably one of the keys will slide back in when I try to remove the barrel or vice-versa when I go to reinstall it.

[davec2]

Well, still havent decided where to go with engraving and carving on this rifle.....so, as usual, I'm just going to "wing it" andf start in.  The designs will have to grow and morph as they develop.  First step was to put on the lower butt stock molding lines.  I used a trick I learned here on ALR to lay them out this time.  I used a strip of label maker tape to establish the first line and then just ran a small knife edge file along the tape for a few strokes......worked great....



After the initial groove was established, I used a tiny bead scraper I made to make the second line and shape the bead......



Then decided I would do something different with the cheek piece edge.  I usually do some sort of concave / convex molding.  This time I ran two beads (with the same scraper) and then did a rope like decoration on a convex surface between the beads.....don't know if I like it yet...?





While I'm deciding, I went ahead with the lock panel molding start.......

[Marcruger]

Crisp.  Meticulous.  Beautiful.  Very consistent with all of your work David.  Enjoying this thread.   :-) 

[JasonR]

That gun is looking almost too nice as is to stain and finish!

[Keith Zimmerman]

Im enjoying this.  The tutorial is great.

[tunadawg]

Watching and following in awe.

[davec2]

Thanks for the encouraging words.  One thing I forgot to take pictures of when I was shaping the butt area around the cheek piece.....for the first time I used this.....



Like a computer, this angle grinder, with a 36 grit disk, will allow one to screw things up at the speed of light.  However, I hate removing the wood on the cheek piece side in slow motion with chisels so I thought I would try this method.  It worked great to rapidly remove a lot of unwanted wood and get me very close to a surface that did not take much additional wood removal with a small spoke shave and scrapers to get this.....besides, I am old enough where I can't afford to move too slowly.  Eight bells might call me out before I get the next rifle done...



So....on with a little more peripheral carving while trying to decide on some major carving issues....Using the same technique as the molding on the lower edge of the butt, I ran a molding bead along the fore stock upper edge from the lock beaver tail to the rear ram rod pipe.






I also took a whack at a sketch of the carving around the barrel breach tang.....Haven't decided if i like it yet....



While I am deciding, I made up the hinge for the patch box.  In other posts I have explained how and why I do this, b ut is has become my usual method for making a patch box hinge and is, to me, much simpler and less trouble than bending the knuckles out of the box plates themselves.  First step is the take two pieces of 1/8" brass rod and drill them lengthwise with a 1/16" through hole, and then cut two pieces of 1/16" thick pieces of brass plate ~ 3/8" wide and 1 1/2" long.





The two rods are then silver brazed to the edges of the plates....





Acid pickled and cleaned up......



Cutting and filing the knuckles.......



Finished hinge.  I will show later how this hinge is prepared for and attached to the box parts in a historically correct manner.

[davec2]

Making a side plate is not really any big deal (unless elaborately carved and cast in silver like some of Smart Dog’s plates) but is often a bit of a challenge from both the design and the size standpoint.  Unless you purchase a side plate that has the hole spacing that is compatible with the lock you are using, you will have to make or modify a side plate. 

The design is often an issue for me as well.  I know it is not required, but I like to match the lock side and the side plate side stock profiles.  I do that by first inletting the lock where I want it, drilling and tapping for the lock bolts, and then shaping the area all around the lock.  Then I take a piece of clear mylar type material and punch two holes in it that line up with the lock bolts.  I put the plastic sheet in place with the lock bolts and trace around the lock molding with a fine tipped Sharpie on the plastic.  The plastic is then cut out with scissors on the traced line and placed on the opposite side of the gun, again using the lock bolts for alignment, so that its outline can be traced on that side of the gun.

Often, for me at least, various side plated designs just don’t look good with the panel outline.  I end up making many sketches of potential side plates before I settle in on one that is both a design that I like and that balances with the space available on the stock panel.  Here are a couple of pictures of the mylar template…..







And here is the side plate being cut out of 0.090” thick brass stock with a jeweler’s saw….








The finished plate (minus the engraving to come yet).