barrel Bore quality

[54Bucks]

Rather than receive the blanket statement that all quality barrels shoot better than people can hold them,which only adds a myriad of possible variations another user did or didn't add to the barrel component itself.Would those with experience with Getz(John's barrels now),Rayl,and Rice,comment/compare bore quality only?
                                 Thanks!
PS I have and am very pleased with the bore quality of Rice w/round bottom grooves,and am including Getz or Rayl while considering which to use on the next rifle.

[t.caster]

The "blanket statement" really is the truth!
That said, I have built rifles using Getz barrels almost exclusively, for over 20 yrs. Their quality is unquestioned and have been a big selling point for my rifles. Thanks Don & John!
Now with that said: I have some Rice brrls. from BlackPowder Barbie in stock too, and have built a couple using them too. I really can't "see" any difference in bore quality.
You may prefer a different steel over another, or a style or pitch of rifling over another, or a profile....whatever. Availability is an issue too. Of the three you mentioned...all will serve you well, and are generally at the TOP of the list. Use what you can get ahold of.
I started building MLs in 1979, and have used just about everything out there in that time. They all shoot better than I can hold them! Oh, wait...that's a "blanket statement" again. Sorry

[LRB]

  Two advantages of Rice barrels are the stress relieving, and the carbide plug that is run through them to make bore diameter more uniform and smoother than most. After finding tight spots in three different Colrains, and rough bores in two more, I gave up using them, although many seem to love and praise them,
   I just re-barreled my own rifle with a .54 Rice, and have never had an easier time getting a good load, or a smoother loading barrel. Third outing on my range I got a good load for it that would have been a five shot 1" group at 50 yrd, had I not screwed it up by allowing thumb pressure to steer the last round low and right. And not a single cut patch. I can shoot through the bottoms of soda cans at 50 yrds consistantly from the bench, but I will continue to experiment more after I get some new glasses.

[54Bucks]

Perhaps we need an active member from all the leading barrel manufacturers and suppliers to get some straight shooting.

[Acer Saccharum]

Who's the best truck manufacturer? Chevy, Ford, GM? Everyone will take sides, and still there will be no clear answer. It will be opinion based on individual experience.

If the barrelmakers submitted their product to Consumer Reports, you would get better results for your question. Until then, no one is going to touch that question with a ten foot pole.

[bob in the woods]

Availability is my #1 concern. I prefer Getz, but have and will use anyof the well known makers barrels, and not worry that I'm using a " 2nd".  Think  back 20 years, when swamped barrels were scarce as hens teeth.
We've never had it so good.

[54Bucks]

Who's the best truck manufacturer? Chevy, Ford, GM? Everyone will take sides, and still there will be no clear answer. It will be opinion based on individual experience.

If the barrelmakers submitted their product to Consumer Reports, you would get better results for your question. Until then, no one is going to touch that question with a ten foot pole.

 Would the Global Monitor Hero Member with 7,233 posts,remove me from this list before I reach #13.I'm going to go wherevever need be to observe the bore on a Getz and a Rayl barrel.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

The matches seem to be won by all types of barrels........I can see no difference in appearance, but all I have shot are Colerain and GM barrels, which work fine so I can't compare from loading and shooting experience.  I guess If I wanted to be picky,,,,they are all fine,,,,,, I would by a Rice barrel for the same reasons LRB mentioned, and they are available .....

As Tom says it is so much opinion unless someone has done some inspection and testing of several barrels from each of the builders..... might be a useful contribution to provide feedback to all the barrel builders............Anybody want to volunteer to buy the barrels, without the manufacturer knowing what they are for?   for a proper sample I would guess we probably need about 15 of each eh??     

[Leatherbelly]

Perhaps we need an active member from all the leading barrel manufacturers and suppliers to get some straight shooting.

Phone them, I'd be curious to what they have to say. Perhaps start with Danny Caywood, Hugh Toenges, ...

[California Kid]

54, 7234 gave you a good answer.
Leatherbelly, perfect suggestions. Behave or I'll send licensed to kill over!

[Leatherbelly]

  I like Dodge barrels and Rice pickups. Licence to kill, he likes them weird barrels and strange pickups.
 "Blanket statement"applies.

[California Kid]

Strange pickups with the big barrels?

[Acer Saccharum]

 Would the Global Monitor Hero Member with 7,233 posts,remove me from this list before I reach #13.I'm going to go wherevever need be to observe the bore on a Getz and a Rayl barrel.

54, no harm intended. Seriously, I doubt you will get a straight answer to your question. That's what I was trying to say.
regards,
7,236

[bob in the woods]

Define bore quality. How it is finished?How smooth and shiny? If how it shoots is the defining factor, then I have seen more Green Mountain barrels win matches than anything else.

[Don Getz]

I have been viewing the comments on this topic, and, have been avoidnig if for a while, the following are my own personal feelings.    If I couldn't get John to make me a barrel anymore, I really don't know whose barrel I would use.   We have always prided ourselves in good reaming.   Many years ago two gentlemen came in the shop, selling what Rice]now uses....carbide slugs to pull thru to iron out the flaws in reaming.....after looking thru our barrels, one fellow said to
his partner, we may as well leave, there is nothing we can do for them.  I know Ed Rayl makes a good barrel, however, I
don't like the hard steel he uses.    Also, the statement was made about Rice stressreleiving their barrels.   This is fine,
but, when you pull that carbide slug thru it, yoiu are once again inducing stresses into the barrel.    And remember, the
only reason they pull that slug thru the barrel is because the reaming is not up to par.   I don't like the six groove rifling
that Colerain does.   One thing about Colerain....their equipment was built by Paris, the same people we bought our business from.  Green mountain has always had a great reputation for good shooting barrels, what more can I say.
Remember, there are my own personal feelings and not meant to run down any other barrel maker.  There are other variable that will affect how well a barrel will shoot, things that can be done in gunbuilding that will make one shoot better than another.   I've had discussions with Branch Meanley of Green Mountain.   We both felt that if you had a barrel
that was smooth with good rifling, you could find a combination of powder, patch and ball size that will give you good
accuracy.   If you have never put a scope on a muzzleloader and shot it, you should.   You would be amazed at what happens when you eliminate sighting error.   All of the barrels I have talked about above are capable to shooting better
than we can see with open sights.   I hope I have not disparaged any of the barrel makers above, If I have, I apologize,
as I consider them all to be good friends.............Don

[Dennis Glazener]

I hope I have not disparaged any of the barrel makers above, If I have, I apologize,
as I consider them all to be good friends.............Don

Don,
Good answer. To me it boils down down to who's steel you like, who's machining method you like, availability and not mentioned, who's price you like (for what you believe you are getting).

I have used barrels by all of the major makers today and a few that are no longer made. I can honestly say that they were all good barrels. Some I liked better than others for one or more of the reasons mentioned above.

Dennis

[Leatherbelly]

   There you have it! Right from the horses mouth. When Don Getz speaks,people listen! Thanks Don!

[Acer Saccharum]

Thanks, DOn. Very well said.

Tom

[Licensed to kill]

   There you have it! Right from the horses mouth.

Don, ya ol' stud 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Years ago I read someone's treatise on muzzle loading barrels.  His name escapes me but he was at the time respected for his views and opinions on these matters.  His summation was that any barrel that has a uniform bore - that has no loose or tight spots, and has rifling, will shoot accurately with an optimal powder/patch/ball combination.
I have only had one barrel that frustrated me with inaccuracy to the point that I rebarreled the rifle.  My friend Sydney took the barrel, recrowned it, and what do you know - a tack driver!!

[bob in the woods]

I still prefer a Getz barrel, not only because of the workmanship, but also because they are a joy to work with..I like the mat'l they are made from.  I'm not a fan of the harder steels.  Unfortunately, availability is still a major issue.

[flintman-tx]

Great post, Don. It always carries weight when  someone who has made something for a long time and done it well, speaks. That goes for barrels, locks, trucks, suits, shoes andf well...you get the idea.

[Daryl]

Good stuff, all. I am surprisd don mentioned putting a scope on a ML barrel, but it's true. Our limiting factor is the sights - open sights actually suck as far as obtaining a consistantly perfect sight picture to produce what the rifle is really capable of. I've had a couple rifles over the years that would put 5 consectutive shots into 1" to 1 1/2" at 100 yards with round balls - one, a fast twist Bauska, with slugs.

 I know it is not normal to find a modern 'big game rifle that will put 5 consecutive shots into 1" at 100 yards, most doing between 1 1/2" and 2 1/2" with factory ammo - and this is with a 9X scope.  Always made me wonder what one of my ML's would do with a scope. 

I've not looked down a lousy ML barrel for many years.  They all look and shoot pretty good today, and that's why Acer's comment is about - spot-on.

[Don Getz]

Talking about an accurate rifle, let me tell you another story.  Back in the early 80's, we developed a little Penna. hunting
rifle, based somewhat on an english henry rifle (note-somewhat)    It had a rather neat pistol grip stock, 1/2 stock, a 28"
straight tapered barrel, 15/16" t0 13/16".   We used one of Pete Allans english trigger and guard, had an underrib with
two ramrod pipes.   Because it had a rather straight stock, we added a rear quarter rib (ala Ruger No. 1) and a ramp front sight, with Lyman sights.   We used a large siler with the tail rounded to give it a different look.   We did them in
45, 50 and 54 calibres, and over a period of years made over 80 of these little critters.....they were real neat hunting rifles.   Early on I had nice piece of curly maple so I made one using this wood, but, (forgive me) I built it with a siler
percussion lock.   Fit a drum to the barrel, and using a dovetail cutter, grooved both sides of that rear quarter rib to accept a standard weaver scope mount.   I bent the top of the hammer outward to miss the scope, and I was in business.
I did the barrel in 45 cal. 1/56" twist.   At the time, I was living out in the country and had a 50 yard range out beside the
house.   I was shooting a .445 round ball, .015 ox-yoke patches, and from 40 to 60 grains of FFF goex.  I stuck a simple
4X weaver scope on it, and, no lie, I could consistently put 5 shots into one big hole, slightly larger than that 45 roundball.
One day I went out and had a target with a 2" square black aiming point.   I took a center hold on the spot and put two
shots right together in the upper right hand corner of the target.  I moved the scope 4 clicks to the left and it put a hole
in the upper left hand corner, I moved it back 2 clicks and it put a shot right between the two.    Shot a lot of ground hog
with that summer, a great fun gun to shoot.   There's something about shooting a real accurate gun that is fun.  So, guess what......I sold it...............Don

[Daryl]

Good story, Don - I do exactly that with modern stuff - work up exceptionally accurate loads for them, get bored, then sell them or trade for ML's.  Just now trading my .375H&H stainless guiding rifle for a 'regulated' .58 Kodiak which I've already started working on. I'm collecting ML's now and replacing al the modern stuff (with a couple exceptions) to muzzleloaders.

I'll be using both the .40 and .32 for walk-around gopher guns this coming May. Should be a hoot!