William Beck Rifle?

[Pro Libertate]

More photos of the William Beck rifle for your viewing pleasure!

I finally have the rifle in hand, and it’s everything I could have hoped for. The only issues are the barrel wedge escutcheon on the left hand side of the rifle had detached and a couple of the nipple threads going into the drum/bolster are boogered. I’d like to shoot the rifle, but I’m not so sure that’s a good idea in its current state, and I’m reluctant to drill and tap for a larger nipple for obvious reasons. I’ve considered repairing the escutcheon, but I’ve also contemplated simply leaving it alone. What are your thoughts?

[Daryl]

You could very easily CA r epoxy that plate back on. Appears to be a very nicely made re-stock.
I would suggest the nipple threads need "repair" or redoing to larger size. The next size up in a metric
might be less of a job than a total drill and re-tap to a larger standard size.

[Karl Kunkel]

The stock looks so perfect and unblemished, could it be a restock of period parts?  Was that escutcheon plate glued in?

[jdm]

Karl, I've been wondering the same thing. Maybe  refinished ? I don't recall seeing the inside of a lock mortise look that good before. I don't mean to offend just wondering.   Still a nice piece.  Jim

[Jdbeck]

My initial thoughts when I seen this for sale was “restock” due to how clean it appeared. However notice the darkening of the wood around the patch box, that’s evidence of increased oxidation, you only see on originals.

I have almost a clone made by his older brother Samuel in Indianna. And if I was a betting man, if I scraped the stock of finish on mine it would look very similar, “although the gun I have has had a hard life for sure.”

There are guns from the golden age that come up occasionally in this level of condition, though it’s highly rare and best error on the side caution. I think it easily could have been cleaned/restored, as that was the common practice not too long ago.

Gun would have to be observed in person for a determination, seeing the barrel channel and behind the butplate would help, if it was refinished you’d likely see.

Regardless it’s a beautiful example.

[Pro Libertate]

The stock looks so perfect and unblemished, could it be a restock of period parts?  Was that escutcheon plate glued in?

The escutcheon was glued in. It sure looks like hide glue to me; it has that transparent amber hue.

[Pro Libertate]

Photos of the barrel channel:

[ntqlvr1948]

It looks like a restock or maybe the whole gun is new. Looks too good to be true

[Curt J]

At first I thought this rifle to be refinished, but after seeing the interior of the capbox and the barrel channel, I believe it is a restock.  Having said that, whoever restocked it was second to none. Both in workmanship and in maintaining the original style and proportions, it is about as good as I have seen, and I have seen and handled a lot.

[Pro Libertate]

Thanks for chiming in. My personal feeling is that it was simply refinished. I think the use of hide glue on the pewter nose cap and escutcheons, the heavy soiling inside the barrel lug slot, and the aforementioned oxidation around the metal allude to the relative age of the stock.

I’d love to get it into the discerning hands of an expert. At the very least, I’d like to find someone with another W. Beck rifle with which to compare its construction.

[Pro Libertate]

As nice as it is, I believe the patch box was done with hand tools. There’s evidence of chisel marks.

[bluenoser]

Track sells over size nipples and taps in .005" increments.  Depending on your nipple thread, that might be your best option for repair.  Keep on mind - you cannot go directly to .015" as an example.  You need to work up in .005" increments.

[JTR]

That's a nice looking rifle, and will likely make a fine shooter.
As for original or not, I would think a restock.
I say this mainly due to the use of glue only for the inlays, and no holes for pins, screws or nails.
As for the use of glue, I've never seen nose caps/inlays or anything simply originally glued in place on these old guns.
I have seen loose inlays glued in, but those originally had small nails, pins or screws to hold them in place.
This gunstock has no old holes for pins, screws or nails, and makes me doubt its originality.
Just my thoughts and others may have a varying opinion,
John

[jdm]

very observant,  John. Give me a couple years I would of seen it also.  Jim

[Jdbeck]

I’ll play devils advocate. Never say never, I’ve seen plenty of NY target guns and Ohio half stocks with no pins or screws in the inlays…. When did that become a thing and why? No idea.

The excessive age and grime in the barrel lug holes makes me think the stock was extensively cleaned and refinished and they missed this area. I’d be curious to see behind the butplate because there is less chance that would have been cleaned.


Check out this original for example while a different style, check out the inlays:

[Pro Libertate]

Thanks for your assessment, John. Here’s a number of other photos I took to help piece the puzzle together. I find it quite odd that virtually all the screws have a substantial amount of rust on their threads. Seems strange to me that someone would take the trouble to refinish the stock and not wire brush the hardware.

[JTR]

JD, are you sure there's no pins?
I have a New York target rifle with silver pins in the inlay, and they are next to impossible to see now.

Also, so are you supposing the inlays are glued in with Hide Glue?
A quick search says the Hide glue is water soluble. So, rifle, in the rain, inlays fall out, nose cap falls off?

Now, I can be wrong just as easy as anyone.... 

John

[Pro Libertate]

I don’t profess to be an expert, but I do know that not all rifles of that time period used pins to hold on the escutcheons or nose cap.

This is just one of numerous examples: https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/products/158172-half-stock-percussion-target-rifle-al5785.html

[jdm]

Ok, You guys will have to help me through this. I'm not sure if this applies  to other inlays. I've have never seen it on anything but patch box side plates.  The side plates that used to be next to the patch box on this rifle I'm posting, were not pinned in. The wood was cut out at an angle ane they slid into place with the edges of the wood holding them in. At least it did for a time. I hope I'm explaining this clearly . The inlays on the op,s rifle don't apeer to be attached this way . I've never really studied the later rifles . So I don't know. It seems like glue would not be  very permanment for a tool such as this.. I'm thinking out loud after a couple of scotches. Jim

[Jdbeck]

Ok, You guys will have to help me through this. I'm not sure if this applies  to other inlays. I've have never seen it on anything but patch box side plates.  The side plates that used to be next to the patch box on this rifle were not pinned in. The wood was cut out at an angle ane they slid into place with the edges of the wood holding them in. At least it did for a time. I hope I'm explaining this clearly . I'm thinking out loud after a couple of scotches. Jim

Now that’s cool right there!



JTR they could be pinned, they just don’t appear to be pinned. So I cannot say for certain. I do find it unlikely hide glue would be used for something like this, it’s an interesting discussion, and maybe someone on here knows? They certainly had water proof glues at this period of which I have several recipes typically involving resins like copal or shellac.

 I have observed several that don’t seem to be pinned, but they could peen the silver over and polish it to hide the fact? Tight inlay, and wood swelling? A combination?

Discussion leads to learning for sure…

[Pro Libertate]

I’m grateful for the discourse, guys. I haven’t been fortunate enough to handle a great deal of these period firearms first-hand, so I’m relying heavily on examples I’ve seen online. A Google search of “W. Beck rifles” and subsequent scouring of the results only turned up a single rifle that had been sold on an auction site, so it’s not as though we’ve got a lot of examples to compare this rifle to. We know that his son (W.G. Beck) was also involved in the business, but I’m not sure to what extent. Was he also a gunsmith, or was he involved in more of the administrative aspects of things? If he was a gunsmith, it’s plausible that he could’ve been tasked with restocking the rifle or even with its construction. Unfortunately, a lot of this is lost to history, and we may never know the answer.

In the 1800s, hide glue was indeed commonly used, but there were other options for water-resistant adhesives as well. Casein glue, made from milk protein, was known for its water resistance and was used during that era. As John Beck alluded to, natural resins and pitch were also utilized for their adhesive properties and water resistance.