Rust blue boiling tank.

[smallpatch]

First time to try rust bluing.  Done cold brown many times in the past , so I understand the process. Just not sure about the boiling part.
Barrel, lock, iron hardware.
This is probably going to be a one- off, so don’t want to spend a fortune on a tank.
Any input appreciated.

[rich pierce]

If you are planning to brown these items then boil, any stainless steel pot or pan will do for the boiling. May want to scrub out before cooking in it.  For barrels I use a galvanized end post for a chain link fence, about 2.5” in diameter, maybe 3. I buy a cap that fits on top and pound it in. I stand it up (plugged end down) near a basement stairs and fill it 3/4 full with boiling water. I get it boiling again by playing a propane torch along the tube. I lower the barrel in with black iron wire in one of the underlugs. When it’s the right depth I fold the wire over the edge of the pipe. Heat some more. It’s near instantaneous but 5 minutes of boiling won’t hurt.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Dane, be sure to use distilled water in the tank.  Ordinary tap water may not give an even blue...may leave some areas brown or purple.  I find that 15 - 20 minutes at a boil is required.

[davec2]

Small Patch,

I have don this a couple of times now (and got the idea from this board).  I hung the barrel by the breach plug tang hole in a 2" piece of PVC pipe with an end cap glued on at the bottom.  I then just boiled a pot of bottled water and poured it into the pipe around the barrel  and let it all cool down to near room temperature.  Came out a beautiful blue.  No continued boiling.  I will find a picture of how the barrel came out.

Here is the old post with some pictures.....


Sorry....the pictures in that old post showed the barrel after I did some additional browning after the blue / boiling trick.  It really worked too well and the barrel looked too modern.  Here are some additional pictures of a barrel that the fellow I was doing this for wanted to look really blue... except for some rub back at the edges......Again, this was just browned and the scalded with one application of boiled distilled water with the barrel in a PVC pipe.....So, I guess it would be your preference.  If you want a barrel to look like a modern hot blue, this may not be the method for you.  But if this barrel looks OK, this simple scalding method worked very well.


Staining (AF) and first of the Sutherland & Wells Tung oil finish going on......





One more pass at polishing the barrel steel before finishing.......





And finishing the metal........

[foresterdj]

Same as davec2. I used a 4 inch pvc, cause I had it. Change from brown to black/blue almost instant when boiling water poured in. I left just a few minutes and lifted out with stiff wire hooks.




upload pictures to the internet

Distilled water. The browning solution was LMF. I think I did 3 cycles.

[silky]

I followed the procedure from davec2's post on this rifle a few years ago... really easy and I was very satisfied with colors after two cycles. The color shown can be almost black/blue in some light, changing to a grayed steel in others.

- Tom

[sdilts]

I've been using Rich's set up for years. Works like a charm.

[snapper]

I use a down spout that I cut the top off and put 90 degree elbows on each end so that it holds water.   I can then boil the barrel in this contraption.

Works great

Fleener

[David Rase]

I might as well get my 2 cents worth in.  I use a piece of galvanized rain gutter capped and crimped on each end.  I used to lay it across 2 burners on my kitchen stove, now I have a Camp Chef 3 burner camp stove.  I use my well water, suspend the barrel in the gutter and boil it for about 15 minutes with a piece of aluminum foil over the top to help keep the heat in.

I was given an 8 foot long half round stainless steel container that I am going to cut in half lengthways and weld and end cap onto.  This will be my new tank.
David

[Dennis Glazener]

Very nice lock panels.
Dennis

I followed the procedure from davec2's post on this rifle a few years ago... really easy and I was very satisfied with colors after two cycles. The color shown can be almost black/blue in some light, changing to a grayed steel

[P.W.Berkuta]

I've done many barrels, locks and steel parts with my galvanized gutter set-up on my kitchen stove using just my tap water which is hard water. I use Mark Lee's Express Rust Blue Solution. For me it works the best. I will do three or four applications of the solution leaving the parts to soak for about 5 to 7 minutes in the hot boiling water For me carding is not necessary between applications of each solution applications as I want a low luster blue/black finish. I will burnish the surface with a paper towel to remove the loose surface deposit that is left on the surface when removed from the water after each application process. A barrel will usually take me about one hour or less to complete.

[alacran]

I've used different approaches as far as the tank goes. All of the ones above work. Whatever method you use Andy, be sure to wear rubber gloves when you card the barrel. That is unless you want your hands to turn black.

[Manitou]

I use a method that I found on a rust bluing site. (https://www.rustblue.com/blog/barrel-steamer-built-bty-paul-sannes/ )
It employs a 10" stainless steel pot (the kind with two handles, like a Revere one with a copper bottom, only not as expensive, I bought mine at a thrift store) and drill a large hole (2") in the lid where the handle is, and then attach a PVC toilet flange to this lid. I attach this upside down with the flange on top of the lid. I then attach a 4 foot piece of schedule 40 PVC pipe on top of that, but I don't glue it together so I can slip it off.
I pour about a quart of distilled water in the pan and slip the four four piece of pipe (with the barrel hanging in it by a dowel and wire) and steam it for ten minutes. The steam will turn the brown to blue/black very well.
Any smaller parts that will fit can be placed in the pan of water and boiled in the usual manner.
I am not at home right now, but can attach pictures when I get home if anyone is interested.

[Dphariss]

How many are you going to do?
Its possible to blue a part with the “pour some boiling water on it” system. But its not as nice (I have done it once with plumb browned Sharps barrel) as one that is rusted, boiled, carded,  rusted boiled carded until the color is right.  Back when I was doing mostly BPCR barrels I used a piece of  old rusty 4x4 square steel tube. Cut out one “flat”, welded two pieces of it on each end to make a boil out tank works perfect. But its too short for a 44” barrel with the breech tang, I have a longer 3x3 piece I have not yet made into a tank. I used a 2 burner Coleman camp stove and a couple of pieces of this sheet metal as partial “lids” works fine. I now have a bigger propane camp stove  iuse but the burners are bigger and I lay a couple of pieces of 1/8”x4”  steel (or whatever might be over in the “junk” pile angled against the side of the tank to help direct more heat to the tank. I boil about 20 minutes and I plug the bore to keep the water out. You can find directions in Angiers book on bluing and browning.  In any case do not polish past 320 grit.   I used heavy wire hangers, “Vs” with the ends bend down to go over the edge of the tank, to suspend the barrel, using the end plugs on the hangers. Blue done this way is harded and FAR more durable than brown or caustic blue finishes.

[Dphariss]

I might as well get my 2 cents worth in.  I use a piece of galvanized rain gutter capped and crimped on each end.  I used to lay it across 2 burners on my kitchen stove, now I have a Camp Chef 3 burner camp stove.  I use my well water, suspend the barrel in the gutter and boil it for about 15 minutes with a piece of aluminum foil over the top to help keep the heat in.

I was given an 8 foot long half round stainless steel container that I am going to cut in half lengthways and weld and end cap onto.  This will be my new tank.
David

I have used distilled and I used tap water, sanitized Boulder River water in Big Timber,  with equal results. 3 burner camp stove, pretty fancy there Dave. But its probably twice as good as 2….

[B.Habermehl]

My scalding tank is vertical. Two inch PVC pipe a cap and a 2-4 reducer for a funnel at the top. Use a turkey fryer to boil water. Lash the assembly to a porch post or similar all joints are simply twisted together with the cap end on the ground. Lower the browned barrel onto the pipe and ladle the boiling water over it quickly filling the pipe. As the pipe leaks down replenish. If it doesn’t leak fast enough drill a couple of small holes in the end of the cap, after the first trial. Mine didn’t need any holes. I use tap water. For my scalded blue browns.

[foresterdj]

Somewhere on this site I read a thread describing  the chemical reaction Taking place when the browned barrel is plunged in boiling water. That author recommended Distilled water since adding unknown ions from hard tap water and it would be anyone's guess what happens.

On a side note, I had my barrel plugged with corks and flash hole with a tooth pick piece. As the air inside barrel expanded bubbles streamed out of the broke end of the tooth pick, through the wood pores.

[Hungry Horse]

 I used the old Dixie Gun Works recommendation of soldering up the end seams on a galvanized chicken feeder, and heating it over a couple of eyes of a gas stove. It’s worked well for years. The distilled water is a good suggestion. I got some weirdnesses the first few time I did it with tap water. Two, or three eyes of a large propane camp stove works really well, and it’s much quieter than using the wife’s cookstove in the kitchen.

Hungry Horse

[kutter]

Sometimes you can use the Public Water supply available to you and get OK results. Other locations it won't respond well and you will get odd colors and results.
You can go on all night and everyone will have different results to tell you about.

Distilled Water (bottled) doesn't always guarentee perfect results it seems. Maybe the people bottleing it are just filling the plastic jugs from the faucet.
You never know what goes on.

Some people that do a lot of the work use an RO system for water.
There are other filtration systems around.
Be happy if the tap water you have works. It's a big issue that's solved and out of the way for you.

'Great Results' in one persons opinion may be less than acceptible in anothers eyes.
Not everyone has the same idea of what is top grade work and what isn't.
SOme  of the M/L build work around gets a pass with the idea that it's supposed to be old looking and less than perfect anyway.
Good enough is one thing I hear a lot..
I like to do my best work no matter what I'm working on and I see a lot of that attitude here.
That's good.

Anyway as to Rust Bluing, if you do a lot of it, one source of good water is the central AC condensate water during the hot weather. I was told by exspurts that it wouldn't work as the copper coils in the unit would leach copper into the water and that would spoil the bluing in the  boiling cycle.
Doesn't seem to and hasn't in the 35yrs I've used it.

I used to rust blue full time for myself and for several different shops and other 'smiths.
I stored up to 125gal of the water at a time and it usually made it thru the winter . If it didn't, melted and filtered Snow filled in from there till the hot weather again.

A large stainless steel tank for boiling. NG for heat.
Express and Cold Rust Blue both used. Plus Damascus finish .
.003d wire carding wheel
Everything from Winchester bbl's & mag tubes to Parkers/LCS/AHFox to H&H and Purdey and everything inbetw.
Now it's just my own projects and a few things for friends and old customers.

..and you don't have to limit your polishing to a dull 240/320 polish with any rust blue (or rust brown) finish.
The extreme high polish blue finish on the best grade Euro guns are rust blue finishes.
We have been lulled into believing that a rust blue/brown finish will automaticly leave you with a matted finish. A dulled slightly grainy surface from the soln lightly pitting the surface to create the needed rust to form.
Not true at all.

The heavy coating of rust that most have been told and have been shown that is need to create a layer of color is entirely NOT NEEDED.
Only a very slight, hardly noticeable rust color layer is needed. It should be so slight that in poor lighting, you can't really see the red color of the coating.
You can slightly feel the coating (OMG actually FEEL it with your fingers?) Yes, you can with clean, dry fingers, drag your opposing thumb and finged down the tube with the absolute lightest of pressure and feel the surface. You can feel the layer of rust formed. You may not be able to actually see it very well at all.
It is ready for the boiling tank.
It will come out with a blue color layer and be ready for a careful carding.
Let the carding brush do the work, don't let the carding wires scratch the metal. Just remove and burnish the surface.

On to the next cycle. The high polish of the metal is preserved.

..If you actually want the bbl and parts to look like a piece of old farm equipment that's been lying in a field for 20yrs, then lay on the rusting soln and let it rust away till the piece is deep red/brown color and the metal is pitted.
You will get your color and your wish of a matted/pitted surface.
Maybe sometimes you want it that way. But it doesn't have to be that way.

[Spalding]

I save the water from the dehumidifier I have running in my basement in the summer.
Can usually get a gallon every couple days.
Bob

[Carl Young]

Kutter, I agree with you 100%. But I'm only a beginner with 50 years of practice...

Respectfully,
Carl

[smart dog]

Hi Dane,
I think any of the set ups previously described work well.  I just want to mention the application of browning for the job.  These are tips I learned from Pete Mazur, probably one of the best barrel finishers and restorers anywhere.  First, the barrel should be highly polished with at least 600 grit or more.  Use paper dipped in water during sanding. Then degrease thoroughly and suspend the barrel horizontally by its ends to apply the solution. I've used Wahkon Bay (my favorite) and LMF.  I will try Mike Lee's bluing on my next English sporting gun.  Whatever solution you use, dilute it about 1/3 more with denatured alcohol.  Apply with a swb but only make one pass over all the barrel surface.  Let the barrel rust for 4-6 hours depending on humidity and then card it using a soft stainless steel brush or mop turning at slow speed so no heat develops.  I use the soft wheel brush sold by Grobet.  The bristles actually feel soft to the touch.  Once carded, then apply browning again and let rust for 2-4 hours before carding.  It may take 20 or more cycles to get a deep smooth almost translucent brown.  Then either boil it to turn it blue black, or wash it with scalding water (140-150 degrees) to turn it a really reddish brown.   
Then dry and oil while still warm.

Here is a barrel scalded:






Here is a barrel boiled:







dave

[smylee grouch]

What are people doing to protect the barrel,s bore during the process ?       

[jm190]

What are people doing to protect the barrel,s bore during the process ?       

I use a synthetic cork stopper i shaped to a taper(makes it universal) for the bore and a toothpick for the touch hole.

[Manitou]

Although no one seemed interested, I decided to post the method of rust bluing that I employ. As I said in an earlier post, I cannot claim ownership of this method as I have seen it before on other firearms related websites.
First I acquired a two handled stainless steel cooking pot (from a thrift store), and PVC toilet flange from the local hardware store.


After drilling holes in the lid to attach the flange and let the steam escape, I assembled the boiling pot.



I then acquired a four foot piece of Schedule 40 PVC pipe that would fit over the flange.
I made sure that I could affix a dowel (or piece of a ramrod) across the top of the tube so that I could hang the barrel.
I put a vented lid on the top, although it's not really necessary. I sometimes put a paper towel over this lid to slow the steam from escaping the tube.






Then, fully assembled, it is a vertical, steam powered rust bluing tank. I use water from my dehumidifier to help eliminate unwanted minerals. Here in Lancaster, PA, we have lots of humidity in the summer. Any parts that will fit in the stainless steel pan just get boiled in the usual way, but the long barrels can be hung in the tube and steamed.