Leman Rifle-Opinions Please

[mgkasper]

I just purchased this rather tired long rifle with a Leman stock and lock.  However, the barrel is unmarked. It is a .50 caliber.  What are your opinions as to the maker of the barrel? I have not disassembled the rifle but plan to do so to check for any markings. Also, what do you recommend for cleaning the dark grime buildup on the stock?  Thanks in advance.

[Hungry Horse]

 If it’s a Leman it’s not a run of the mill model. How did you determine the stock was Leman?

Hungry Horse

[rich pierce]

I recall seeing several originals with Leman locks and no signature on the barrel. In those cases I assume that only the lock is from the Leman shop. There are a lot of Lemans with barrels stamped. https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=3043.0

[mgkasper]

I just speculated based on the stock design and lock fit.  Of course, I can't be 100 percent sure.  I welcome your opinions on possible stock makers.  Thanks.

[rich pierce]

It’s very challenging to identify unsigned mid 1800s longrifles. People were moving all over the place and the same castings, barrels, and locks could be found everywhere. So, we look for details that stick out. The inlay surrounding the lock bolt head on the side plate side may be a clue.

[Hungry Horse]

 Have you had the barrel out of the stock? If not there might be an H.E.L. On one of the barrel flats. Occasionally a barrel got reindexed at the factory, or got shortened at the breech after severe use (which your gun obviously had). In any event , I can tell you the stock appears to be genuine curly maple rather than the artificial striped stocks Leman is famous for. The fancy wood, without a cap box in the butt stock seems a little unlikely as well. Traditional Lemans usually can be spotted across a room by their shorter than usual nose cap, and rear entry pipe finial, which your gun has neither. But that being said it may have been a custom order.

Hungry Horse

[Tanselman]

This rifle appears to be a non-Leman product using a commercially sold Leman lock. Leman's stocking usually had a stronger nose on the comb, and his side facings were not as tight around the lock as on this rifle, particularly on the front and rear ends. The rear side-facing with its strong "step" halfway out on its nose doesn't follow Leman's pattern; Leman's percussion era rear side-facings usually had a smoother top edge. The file work on the guard's bow also does not look like Leman's work. It might help to post a picture of the barrel tang, since at times the tang can help identify a gunsmith's hand, or at least nudge it toward a region.

Shelby Gallien

[Avlrc]

Don't remove the "dark grime". That is the patina-long rifle collectors would pay to have on their cleaned rifles. Just stabilize that crack & secure the barrel to the stock via some pins, that may be missing.

[mgkasper]

Thank you all very much for your great information! I will post shortly a picture of the barrel tang, and any marks I find when I remove the barrel.

[smylee grouch]

Leave the stock alone.

[mgkasper]

As requested, Shelby, I added an image of the tang.  It obviously does not fit snuggly against the barrel.  Perhaps, this tang is a replacement to the original.  Thank you.

[mgkasper]

The only marks I found on the removed barrel could be a signature or tooling marks on the bottom flat near the breech plug. Also, the barrel is missing two underlugs. 

[Hungry Horse]

 The stamping on the barrel may be more legible if you rub it with chalk dust. The barrel seems to have been in another gun previously, so anything on the barrel probably doesn’t pertain to this gun. There are lots of guns made from several broken guns.The old adage that there has never been a machine better suited to breaking guns than a horse, comes to mind.

Hungry Horse

[Old and Grumpy]

In picture #5  of the missing under lug. Just to the right of the lug holes I see letter stamps? From left to right I see a clear tiny letter "U" or a 4 with it's leg gone.It does not look like rust pitting.  What I see. U or 4, K ,I or L, and something else. Because I don't have my electron microscope latter tonight I will soak the picture in good Kentucky Shine and report what pops out!

[mgkasper]

I looked carefully with magnification, and that area you pointed out near the missing lug shows only surface texture of the metal.  Thank you, though.

[Avlrc]

In picture #5  of the missing under lug. Just to the right of the lug holes I see letter stamps? From left to right I see a clear tiny letter "U" or a 4 with it's leg gone.It does not look like rust pitting.  What I see. U or 4, K ,I or L, and something else. Because I don't have my electron microscope latter tonight I will soak the picture in good Kentucky Shine and report what pops out!

I thought the same thing.  Like those crazy pictures you stare at long enough, then an image appears. LOL

[jdm]

Please leave the finish alone.  People pay money to get there rifles to look like that.  Nice find.

[mgkasper]

Thank you, Jim.  This stock sure could use a coating of oil. It is so dry.  Is boiled linseed ok? I have used it for many years on all my vintage military stocks with no problems.

[Old and Grumpy]

I looked carefully with magnification, and that area you pointed out near the missing lug shows only surface texture of the metal.  Thank you, though.

Well guess  the shine does make me see things that arn't there!

[smokinbuck]

Now that you have the barrel off the stock, what was the purpose of the copper wire fore and aft of the rear sight?

[mgkasper]

Mark,
Don't laugh too hard...but the wire was to keep the barrel attached to the stock!  It is missing two of the three underlugs! Also, no pins are present at the underlug locations.