seems like a "southern mountain rifle"???

[altankhan]

I recently traded for this unsigned piece which I thought some of you might like to see -- the tag says "Tennessee rifle" -- the particulars: walnut stock, 41 1/4 inch, 7/8th in.  barrel, .36 cal.; two piece iron buttplate (brazed together, three lines filed on top forward end); iron triggerguard with distinct features; two screws through pointed tang (but screws do not seem to pass into the trigger plate), one lock screw (rounded head, mostly covers the brass washer that serves as a sideplate); no skirt on rear ramrod pipe; distinct rear site, front sight (brass? blade missing) was fastened with a small dovetail; original percussion lock has distinct shape and scroll engraving (may be a regional thing?  quite unlike locks we normally see on Ohio rifles); 4 1/8 inch iron toeplate.  Wrist and cheekpiece merge -- there are lateral ridges on both sides of the wrist and stock (see photos).  Comb is narrow and flattish on top. Forestock is rather triangular in cross-section (not rounded). Seems metal parts have all been darkened long ago, including thin brass ramrod pipes.  Not sure if the wood ever had finish (possibly some sort of darkened oil stain), but it is smooth to the touch (though not uniform in texture).  End cap is poured white metal, rather roughly finished.  Any ideas on where made/local style,  etc. ?  Thanks in advance for any and all insights. (The pictures should clarify some of the description.)

Photos:

[Tanselman]

This is an interesting "southern" rifle. It has a slightly shorter wrist, i.e. longer comb, than I would expect on this ca. 1840s gun. The two screw tang is a little shorter than most double screw tangs, but still uses two screws. These rifles made closer to the frontier, or in poorer rural areas, would often use two wood screws to attach the tang, rather than a front tang bolt into the trigger plate with a rear wood screw, so your arrangement is reasonably common for this type rifle.

I think this gun has several possibilities for where it was made, and would not immediately put it in Tennessee despite the iron hardware.  To me, the gun has somewhat of a western North Carolina feel, particularly with the longer comb, clean butt lines without excessive curvature, smaller sized neat cheekpiece, and your comment about the comb being somewhat flat on top. The small sized commercial lock also reminds me of guns with Carolina roots, since the many NC gunsmiths who migrated to KY tended to use smaller locks, almost pistol sized at times, on their rifles. The rear ramrod pipe without flange does not appear TN to me. If it was stocked in TN, I would have expected to see a more abrupt, or flatter area for the back end of the entry pipe to abutt against, yet the area on this gun is somewhat rounded immediately behind the rear pipe.

While the gun has some aspects of mountain rifles from southeastern KY, the barrel is a little short for that area, and I do not recognize that guard style, particularly the wide rear spur. Of course, there are a number of small time gunmakers from that area with no reported work, so you can never say never. I'd lean toward a wester NC rifle, possibly a western SC rifle, or from the general area of western NC, eastern KY, even northern AL is possible. Geeeze, by outlining that area, I have to include TN as well, altho I don't really think it was made there. I wish it had initials on the barrel, because these are the rifles that were really used by our forefathers, but being simple and undecorated, few were signed.  Shelby Gallien

[oakridge]

No patch/capbox or grease hole?

[altankhan]

No patchbox or grease hole. These photos show the lock side, toeplate, and another profile of the stock:

[G-Man]

If I am looking at it correctly, the guard is real unusual - and nicely done too.  The rear piece extends forward  much farther from the back around the underside of the bow than you normally see - it looks like the rivet used to hold the pieces together is in front of the rear trigger.  It has the look of one of the earlier types of mountain rifle guards where they were more or less trying to mimic the look of one of the brass guards of the Golden Age era.  The buttplate curve is fairly moderate.  I would not rule out that these parts were reused from an older gun, but even if so, it looks to be a nice old "period" restock with a lot of history.

Is the barrel swamped or straight?

Guy

[altankhan]

The barrel is straight, though all the width of the flats are not completely even, esp. on the forward portion of the left side (when looking down the barrel  from the tang along the visible flats) -- so it may have been dressed out under more basic conditions than in a well-equipped barrel production shop .... no particular evidence it was actually hand-forged, however.  the gun seems like a real hunting piece, light enough to carry, despite the small bore, and balances well

as for the triggerguard, the rear portion may just be folded and forge welded together -- no visible evidence of a rivet ;  the rear diamond (which as you note ) extends really far up the bow of the guard, does not show a rivet, but on the inside of the bow, centered corresponding to the middle of the rear diamond is a small hole which may have or does hold part of a rivet or something else that kept things together in what I think was the forge welding process -- at any rate, the metal is quite thin and whoever did it knew what he was doing

I'm wondering about the lack of sharp edges on the lock panels -- maybe an indication of scraping with glass or other scraper -- or in this particular time and place maybe rounded edges were acceptable or had even become part of the local aesthetic...

[longrifle]

I really like that rifle, plain clean, simple lines. It has nice thin sleek look to it without a lot of fancy stuff. I really like that one. 

[Sequatchie Rifle]

It really reminds me of a Gillespie-made rifle.  They started out in NC, then spread all over the place- their style pops up in Northern GA!

[Dennis Glazener]

I don't think its a Gillespie but I would not be surprised if it came from that area of NC or maybe western SC which butts up to that area of NC.

I saw a rifle with a trigger guard similar to that in Pickens County SC, not sure where it was made but probably not far from the area.
Dennis

[Sequatchie Rifle]

Dennis, I knew I could drag you into this conversation!

Bill

[dannybb55]

I bet that the man who forged that guard made variants of that shape, When you forge a guard you are working towards an idea. Maybe you have a soapstone sketch on your anvil, a bailing wire pattern, another trigger guard at hand or a spot on the stock that needs filling. another variable that rears up is what material is on hand, round stock, flat stock, two broken carriage bolts, also if you have a hack saw blade and if the planets and gods are smiling so that the weld will stick and these thin bits won't burn. Some days the cleanest, hottest fire won't weld and some days you can weld with yesterdays dust and green coal. With sand cast brass you can make duplicates, forging iron gets you a progression of close copies. If you can make duplicates in a forge either you spent too much time on this job or you have made hundreds and are bored to tears. None of these mountain boys were full time gunsmiths. They all shod mules, repaired equipment and grew corn. The first trigger guard that was good enough was screwed on. I will bet a hand forged guard that once the filing and drilling was done, they heated it to dull red and quenched it in oil and then burned the oil of in the flames over the coal fire for a nice long lasting black finish. That works for all kinds of ironwork and looks great on white work.  Danny