Filing, shaping brass castings

[smallpatch]

One area that I continue to struggle with is taking a cast brass trigger guard, buttplate, or sideplate, and getting down to final shape.  It seems like I file for hours and hours, and just don't get any where.  Takes so much time to remove enough metal to get them slimmed down to final dimensions, etc.

What procedure, type and shape of files do you use??   There just has to be a better way than what I'm doing now.

Maybe a good place for a tutorial??

[California Kid]

Start with half- round bastard, cuts faster. Finish with mill file, Swiss #2. Then Swiss #4 leaves a pretty good finish.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Dane, I agree with CA Kid..... Put it in a sturdy vise so that you can apply pressure!!   The bastard file..or even a belt sander does the hogging.

Happy New Year!

[B.Habermehl]

One thing is to start out with a new file. A file that has seen use on steel will be slightly dull however sharp it seems on steel. Brass has lubricating properties. A file that has been used on steel will skate noticeably. A new file will cut. I try to keep files segregated for use on brass.  The bronze alloy that is sometimes used for lost wax castings is even worse.  BJH

[smallpatch]

That's kind of what it seems like.  The files cut great on steel, but just kind of skid over the surface of the brass.  Maybe off to buy new files, dedicated only to brass???

[Dphariss]

One area that I continue to struggle with is taking a cast brass trigger guard, buttplate, or sideplate, and getting down to final shape.  It seems like I file for hours and hours, and just don't get any where.  Takes so much time to remove enough metal to get them slimmed down to final dimensions, etc.

What procedure, type and shape of files do you use??   There just has to be a better way than what I'm doing now.

Maybe a good place for a tutorial??

Flat files and various bastard cut files will do better for roughing than a mill file. Though a smooth cut mill will give a nice finish for the final shaping.
1/2 round, round and chainsaw files work for rounded areas and certain contours.
"Magic cut" files work well and files made for aluminum will cut metal at a rapid rate

Dan

[marziale00]

Probably not the a widely approved approach, but I put a sanding drum of small diameter in my drill press to take down the rough casting. It goes pretty fast with 240 grit. When it is getting close, I switch to files to clean up shape lines.

[Acer Saccharum]

Sometimes there is sand embedded in the surface of the castings, which wreaks havoc on the files.

Start with coarse, and work your way to fine files. For traditional finishing methods, you can switch to scrapers, the same ones you use on wood, and then to burnishing. For contemporary, you can use wet 'n dry sandpaper, then a buffing wheel. And yes, separate files for brass is a good idea. I may think I can't afford an extra set, but having spent HOURS filing brass with a semi dull file, lemme tell you, my argument for economy rapidly loses steam.

Many originals show file/scraper marks inside the bow. Contemporary pieces often show a high level of finish. So how you finish your brass is entirely up to you. Consider how you will finish the wood, and have both materials finished to comparable levels.

Happy New Year

Tom

[jpldude]

Here's another alternative:

http://knobmountainmuzzleloading.com/

Rgds,

John

[Dphariss]

One thing I did not think to mention is that some wax castings are bronze not brass and harder than heck to file.

Dan

[billd]

Knob Mountain's castings are not bronze. Real brass, very easy to polish.  He has several molds for new styles almost ready too.
Bill

[Pete G.]

I use scapers to remove the bulk of the roughness. A sharp scraper will peel of curls of brass, but keep it very sharp and use moderate pressure of you might get some chattering. Works especially well on concave surfaces.

Final shaping done with a NEW file that has never touched steel.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I for one am thankful that those sand castings from TOW are WAY overbuilt.  Inside all that brass is the guard you might be seeking.  The following is an example of that...the new guard for my Wm. Antes swivel breech rifle project.  I started with the guard rough cast, and using rasps set aside only for brass and wood, I quickly (ljust than two days) reduced the casting down to the one in the photo.  Of course, that involved splitting it, adding the lump behind the spur, and the guide piece in the bow.  A little bending was involved, as usual.  One bite at a time, the parts that are not available for a particular build, come together.
I use rasps, files, and abrasive cloth from 80 - 320 grit to remove brass.  Polishing is with wet/dry from 320 to 1200, and 0000 steel wool.   I'll have to try scraping and burnishing next.

[Acer Saccharum]

Taylor, thanks for posting those pics. You make such interesting projects. I am deeply impressed by your excellent workmanship, but even more so by your planning ahead, drawing, getting all your hardware right before you cut your wood...

[smallpatch]

Taylor,

OK, I'm inspired.  Bought some new files today, and I'm gonna make the new ones work.  Must keep filing, must keep filing!!!  I got a new buttplate and trigger guard from Allen Martin, that I'm going to use on the new H Rupp.  Should have the stock back from Dave Rase by the end of the week.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Thank you Tom and Dane.  I must say, there was quite a pile of brass filings around the vise when I was done that one, but the result was worth the blisters.
The rough cast guard is for my A. Verner - also a Buck's Co. rifle.   Interesting that they both came from the same mold in this case.  I used The Antes longrifle that precedes the swivel rifle in RCA for the pattern for the swivel guard, since the original is unfortunately missing.  Mark Wheland has been a big help to me in this project.

[dannybb55]

E bay has some deals on esoteric patterns of files. Are there any easier to deal with sources?

[smallpatch]

OK, I picked up 4 new files so far, painted on the tangs black (for brass only), and boy what a difference in the cut.  Now a lot of elbow grease, and we'll have what we need.

Thanks for all your help.  I just can't believe the difference.

[Nate McKenzie]

Here is my very primitive but effective TG holder for filing cast trigger guards. its just to old pieces of paneling bolted together. Ugly as sin but it works. I should make a better one.

[mountainman]

very cool Nate, I just got a glimpse of your shop looks interesting, very neat. Looks like you are a laundry boy as well... looks like your having fun!!

[Acer Saccharum]

In the picture below, the soldered on tab is a 100% secure way to grip the bow while filing/finishing the inside of the bow. The piece of brass is 1/4 thick, which provides plenty of grip in the vise,, and a substantial soldering surface.

This can be melted off, and soldered onto either finial for working those parts. The beauty is that you can file really with gusto, with no fear of bending or crushing the casting.

Tom

[Acer Saccharum]

Nate, keep the washing machine closed while roughing your stocks, otherwise your delicates will be full of sawdust. 

[Nate McKenzie]

Acer, believe me I here about it when I don,t shut the lid.

[Artificer]

I was taught long ago by a REAL Old Time Machinist that even with files you are going to use with steel only, you should always break them in on Brass or Bronze first.  I think this is to take care of any burrs in the files or it may be just to sort of even out the teeth?  Honestly, I'm not entirely sure why it works I just know it works.

I have a number of files I use for various tasks and there are a few files I use in many materials.  So what I learned to do with the files I use for many purposes was make wrap scabbards with cardboard covered with masking tape and mark the wraps with 1.wood (and that also includes fiberglass), 2,brass and then 3.Steel.  When I buy a new file, it goes in the wood wrap and the one in the brass wrap goes to the steel wrap.   It really helps me keep track of what the same type of file is used for and will be sharp for when I grab it. 

This started years ago when I bought an 8 inch Nicholson Handy File by just grabbing one and I didn't notice it was marked "for Plastic."  It works great on horn or antler, BTW, and they are not real easy to find. I wanted to make sure I would never use it on brass or steel.  I keep standard Handy Files in the Brass and Steel marked wraps.

Making these scabbards have really extended both the cutting life and usefulness of the files.

[The other DWS]

old time T&D guy advised me to "chalk" my files when working with soft alloys or brass/bronze.  just run a piece of blackboard chalk a couple licks down the file. helps lubricate and keeps them from clogging.  combing the file clean every so often helps a whole lot as well.