Author Topic: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class  (Read 2817 times)

Offline Ian Pratt

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Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« on: September 02, 2024, 04:36:50 PM »
Here are a few shots of a rifle I built as a model for the students in the recent "Foxfire Rifle" class. Hershel House's contribution to the Foxfire 5 book inspired many to try to take up gunmaking, and I thought that recreating the gun would make for a great class for beginners and old hands alike. The 7 day class was hosted by the Woodbury School Foundation at Hershel's home. John House, Gary Ludwig and I taught the class the last week of July. We had a big group of good students and we all had a blast! I will add some class photos to this post soon.



     










Offline 44-henry

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2024, 05:05:27 PM »
Beautiful rifle, I always loved that style. What barrel did you use?

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2024, 05:11:09 PM »
A most worthy project. Great looking rifle.  ;)

Offline Daryl

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2024, 07:20:51 PM »
That is a beautiful rifle and so nicely finished.
Daryl

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Offline Jacob_S_P

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2024, 08:48:24 PM »
Photos don't do it justice. Anyone building previously or aspiring to should take this class and build this rifle. It was the best experience I have ever had in the world of longrifles with regards to skill building and gaining knowledge and experience. It is an immersive opportunity to do nothing but build that rifle.

Offline Ian Pratt

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2024, 08:57:56 PM »
Beautiful rifle, I always loved that style. What barrel did you use?

 To maintain the right character we had everyone use straight barrels like Hershel used for the Foxfire gun. He used a 7/8" .45 cal and many of the students stuck with that while others opted for a slightly different caliber or a lighter 13/16" barrel. This one was a .45 cal Green Mountain barrel I had on hand
« Last Edit: September 02, 2024, 09:03:28 PM by Ian Pratt »

Offline Ian Pratt

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2024, 09:09:23 PM »
A most worthy project. Great looking rifle.  ;)

Thank you, although I won't take any credit for the style of gun. This was an attempt to capture some of the spirit of Hershel's Foxfire gun and try to pass it along to others. It was of great importance to him that the classes would continue at his place in Woodbury and we're doing our best to carry on !

Offline Ian Pratt

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2024, 09:14:56 PM »
That is a beautiful rifle and so nicely finished.

Thank you Daryl. I stained it with a little bit of Hershel's last batch of aquafortis mixed with some of my own and finished with a mix of Tru Oil and linseed as he often liked to do. John House did a " boiled in bleach on the forge" metal finish on all the steel parts as a demo on the last day of class.

Offline Ian Pratt

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2024, 09:19:16 PM »
Photos don't do it justice. Anyone building previously or aspiring to should take this class and build this rifle. It was the best experience I have ever had in the world of longrifles with regards to skill building and gaining knowledge and experience. It is an immersive opportunity to do nothing but build that rifle.

It was great meeting you Jacob! Thanks for the thumbs up, and I enjoyed working with you. I hope that you and some of the other guys will post pictures of your guns here whenever they are done!

Offline Dwshotwell

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2024, 09:44:17 PM »
Still a work in progress but I’m getting close.The class was an amazing experience. Can’t say enough about the great atmosphere and instruction.




David Shotwell

Offline Carl Young

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2024, 11:28:10 PM »
"capture some of the spirit of Hershel's... It was of great importance to him that the classes would continue at his place in Woodbury and we're doing our best to carry on !"

Thank you Ian! A lot of people deserve credit for preserving Hershel's legacy and you are at the top of the list. I would also like to mention the following people who have made significant donations (these are only people that I talked to or know made donations. If you were omitted from the list it is my fault):

Ian Pratt for taking up the cause and building the rifle https://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2009/09/ian-pratts-iron-mounted-maidens.html
John House hand-forged buttplate/trigger-guard/hardware https://www.blackpowdermag.com/john-house-cla-featured-artist/
Stoner Creek who motivated me to seek donations to build a rifle to raffle for Herschel's cause.
Nathan @ Harrison Gunstocks https://harrisonsawmill.com/gunstocks/
Jason @ Rice Barrels https://ricebarrels.com/
Dave Race for inletting the barrel into the stock
Barbie, Jim & Karen Chambers for a lock https://www.flintlocks.com/
Jim "Bama" Parker  @ Calvary Longrifles for a custom set trigger https://www.facebook.com/calvarylongreifles/
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Offline smart dog

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2024, 01:51:57 AM »
Hi Ian,
Unbelievably nice gun!  I remember that FoxFire chapter very well.  It also inspired me to get making muzzleloaders back in 1979.  I think it was Billy Kennedy that suggested I get the book.  Maria says hi!

dave 
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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2024, 02:01:33 AM »
  Ian I'm of the same group as others. Hershel and Fox Fire five. Started a lot of us on this path. What inspired me was the simplicity of the tools he used. My old Tennessee Mountain lathe is still working fine...
  Thank you an everyone else who keeps Hershel tradition alive..
« Last Edit: September 03, 2024, 06:04:44 PM by oldtravler61 »

Offline Top Jaw

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2024, 03:26:17 PM »
That’s a great tribute/interpretation gun Ian!  You have captured the essence and vibe of that particular FF 5 rifle, and of Hershel’s touches.  I always wished the FF 5 chapter had better pics of the finished gun. Thanks for posting these. They certainly fill the void very well.  And thanks for doing this class. 
« Last Edit: September 04, 2024, 06:19:22 PM by Top Jaw »

Offline Gaeckle

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2024, 07:59:34 PM »
Ian, could you describe the "boiled in bleach"  that John House did for those of us not in the class?

Offline Ian Pratt

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2024, 09:36:11 PM »
Thanks guys. Hershel was always so pleased to hear stories from people about how he helped them get started in gun building. One of his favorite things in life was passing along the things he had learned.

I agree that the quality of the photos in the book leave a lot to be desired, and if you start studying the math in the part they did about Hershel some of the info definitely doesn't add up either (I don't want to knock the Foxfire books -  they are wonderful and very important records of the past). I honestly didn't have any better reference material, and the gun itself apparently disappeared from the Foxfire Museum's a long time ago. What I did have was a familiarity with the way Hershel worked just from being around him and from studying his work from that same period. I should probably also mention that the drawing that some refer to is unfortunately NOT of the actual Foxfire rifle. I saw Hershel politely point this out to students quite a few times. I really don't know what happened there. There are similarities between the two guns but it's not the right one.

So as simple of a gun that it is, there was still a bit of reverse engineering that had to happen to figure a couple of things out. The trigger guard was one. For a time he was forging these from 3/8" round stock and splitting out the back half vs. forge welding the spur. I have forged some larger musket type guards from a bit bigger diameter round stock but this was a little different and took me a little longer than I expected to work out. I made this one slightly different than the original to suit my shooting style but the others I made for the class were closer to the original.
 

Ian, could you describe the "boiled in bleach"  that John House did for those of us not in the class?

John you are basically boiling your steel parts in a mix of household bleach and water. You have to experiment with what bleach is available to you locally. John House has been liking a cheaper brand that I think he gets at the Dollar Store. Everyone who used to do this used to use Clorox but apparently the formula changed and it won't do what it used to.

There are less toxic ways to rust metal, but few that work so quickly .....seal any surfaces you want to protect (like the inside of your lock) with poly varnish. Grease the bore, drive a tight wooden plug into the muzzle, point up the end of a small piece of soft copper wire and drive it into the vent. Stretch a piece of gutter sealed on both ends ( or other suitable vessel) across a forge or camp stove, fill with poison, bring to a boil and dump all your precious steel parts that you bought, made, shaped, engraved or otherwise slaved over directly into the boiling poison. Don't breathe for the next half hour or so. If you see bubbles chugging out of your barrel, stop immediately. Remove the barrel, call Bobby Hoyt and try to explain to him through your desparate sobbing that you will be sending him a barrel to fix.

Stir the poison and reposition the trough to try and get an even heat along the length of the barrel. Periodically remove the parts and scrub with steel wool. Wear gloves or your hands will fall off. When you think the parts are rusted enough, remove them, rinse off in clean water. If you see spots that need more corrosion, throw them back in.

For a dark finish like John did, keep rusting until you don't see many bare spots. Burnish everything with a fine wire wheel and re -inspect, throw back into the drink if needed. When satsified, wash with water and dawn dish soap. Before oiling, leave the parts for a few days for best color and coverage .

If you want more of a gray and pitted look, you can work the parts over a time or two with steel wool , wash then oil. Or as above wait and allow it to color up more before oiling.

I did some like this for a couple years or so when I got started then abandoned it for other methods. It was cool to see it done again and it certainly gave the rifle the right look! We actually deviated from how it was done in the book, but Hershel did hundreds of guns this way so John and I decided to run with it.       
« Last Edit: September 03, 2024, 09:39:41 PM by Ian Pratt »

Offline Stoner creek

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2024, 11:39:19 PM »
You can get the same results without the big awful pitting by using Tracks Tried and True brown.  Apply liberally (my only good reference to liberal), leave it outside overnight and it’s done. You’ll need to neutralize with ammonia and gently scrub back with 4/0 steel wool with oil. To heck with the boiling.
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Offline reddogge

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2024, 02:04:06 AM »
That is one good looking rifle Ian.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2024, 02:38:23 PM »
As always , beautiful rifle Ian!

Tony

Offline Ian Pratt

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2024, 03:03:06 PM »
Still a work in progress but I’m getting close.The class was an amazing experience. Can’t say enough about the great atmosphere and instruction.

You are doing a great job Dave! Your rifle is coming along really well. You' re not too far off from having it finished and I look forward to seeing more photos!

Offline bpd303

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2024, 12:08:54 AM »
I'm not a gun builder, but have restored many original's both flintlock and percussion. Your build is just beautiful and I bet Hershal is smiling on a great class and build. I have always admired the guns from Hershal House and y'all done good.
Randy aka bpd303        Arkansas Ozarks

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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2024, 12:13:00 AM »
That's a spectacular piece of work - extremely awesome!

It was that Foxfire book, and an unknown 'Sports Afield' magazine article in the early 1980s that featured a Kuntz rifle, that got me seriously interested in these rifles.
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Offline Curtis

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2024, 07:17:51 AM »
Nicely done, Ian, Hershel would b proud!!


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Offline Ian Pratt

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2024, 10:05:13 AM »
Thanks guys!

That's a spectacular piece of work - extremely awesome!

It was that Foxfire book, and an unknown 'Sports Afield' magazine article in the early 1980s that featured a Kuntz rifle, that got me seriously interested in these rifles.

Thank you Eric. Building this one took me back in ways I hadn't expected. It had been many years since I had built a rifle with a straight barrel - my first guns all had straight barrels mostly because they were the cheaper option. It had also been a long time since I had filed a lock.bolster to kick the tail out so the wrist didn't end up like a pencil, and I can' t remember how.long it's been since I tried to deliberately copy someone else' s style of work. All of this.might not seem like too big of a deal to some but it really took me back to another time and a different frame of mind. Back then I didn't know Hershel yet but I knew his work, and I recognized that he was one of very few gunmakers who were successfully doing their own thing. I felt like it gave me license try to do the same. I couldn't have imagined back then that he and I would become friends.

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Rifle from the "Foxfire" class
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2024, 07:09:48 PM »
I think I mentioned this before, but probably my first exposure to these guns was from the Foxfire book.  Dad had the set and I can remember being fascinated with the longrifle section.  Would I have ever done this stuff without the Foxfire exposure?  I'm not sure...