Need some advise, shipping barrels from US to Canada

[JH Ehlers]

I got 2 barrels shipped form Rice just to have them returned to him a month later after doing the rounds in the US. Any advise from someone who has been doing this? Maybe the description of the items? I believe a new law was passed in Canada about gun parts but surely that can't include antique or replica muzzleloaders. Any advise appreciated, thanks.

[davec2]

My personal rule about shipping with ANYONE....the box contains "machined parts".  Period.  Just like talking to a lawyer at a deposition....don't provide any more information than necessary.  And in today's world any use of the word "gun" or "firearm" (or anything related) is an almost guarantee of someone along the way turning what amounts to a a simple shipment of "machined parts" or "tubing" or "piping" into a problem.  Don't give anyone along the way any "ammo", by virtue of what you declare is in the box, to mess with your shipment.

[Jim Kibler]

Johanne,

Give Bree here a call.  She ships to Canada and would know well.  330-551-5844.  You can also message her at bree@kiblerslongrifles.com

[Steeltrap]

Interesting. If it's a gun barrel with no flash hole would it not be simply a "display only" item....until the flash hole is drilled?

Can't say that about a modern firearm barrel I suppose. But until it's attached to a receiver it's just a pipe.

[JH Ehlers]

Thanks for the replies, Dave, you and me are on the same boat with that. I do not know yet what was written in the customs declaration of the package. As far as I know these type of "guns" in Canada are not considered as firearms.
It all depends on the person in who's hands it ends up at customs and what he or she decides what to read of it.
Thank you Jim, I will send Bree an e-mail.

[Bob Roller]

When I shipped to Canada I marked the info as rebuilt lock mechanism.To Germany I used German and no problem here or there.
Bob Roller

[bob in the woods]

As a general rule, government officials here do not know very much about the actual laws. Law enforcement knows even less, so any reference to gun parts at all is or can be problematic. I have found that the best way to send or receive parts is via Post.
Industrial tubing, locks. castings,...keep the description a vague  as possible.
Shipping to the U.S. isn't a problem.

[Hudnut]

As of September 1st, to acquire a firearm barrel, a Canadian must have his Possession and Acquisition License (PAL) verified by the Canadian Firearms Program (CFP).  This is a Federally issued license permitting the possession and acquisition of certain firearms.
Suppose I am going to give a firearm barrel to a friend.  I call the CFP and give them my friend's PAL information, plus some other data.  The CFP confirms that the PAL is valid, and I can give him the barrel.
I am going to assume that to clear a barrel into Canada, a similar process would have to be done before the barrel would be released.  This is nothing to do with export from the US, but rather with import into Canada.
To the best of my knowledge, the law refers to firearm barrels.  I have no idea if that term includes barrel blanks. 
In Canada, some pre-1898 firearms and some post 1897 reproductions are legally antique.  They can be transferred without the recipient having a PAL.  Antique firearms are not non-guns; they are firearms with antique status, and are exempt from many of the restrictions placed on modern arms.
Note that no handgun that does not qualify as an antique may be transferred in Canada.  Possession is frozen.  No handgun made after 1897 is classified as antique; some made before 1898 may be, but not all.  Current policy is that a licensed Canadian may not make a firearm without a manufacturing license, with the exception of a match, flint (touch hole fired) long gun.  A post 1897 percussion long gun does not have antique status, therefore a manufacturing license would be needed to make one.
I assume that something like a Kibler kit would be considered to be an antique firearm, and as a flintlock would not be subject to the PAL requirement and so would not be a problem to import.
The good folks at the Canadian border are under a lot of pressure to curtail gun smuggling.  Anything related to firearms may receive close attention.  I would be cautious about vague, generalized declarations.  Might sail right through or might attract extra attention.
The legal situation is a true can of very complicated worms.

[Daryl]

I would suggest that a blank without a breech piece nor vent is just a rifled (or not) tube of machined (breech threads & octagonal flats) steel.
A flintlock barrel, with breech AND vent is the same as a matchlock barrel is not a firearm, however whomever checks the package has the final word and they dont give a $#@* about "accuracy".

[JH Ehlers]

Some information that I found, it might be of help to other Canadians that want to import stuff. I am going to send this to Jason and he will include it with the customs declaration. I will let you know what happens.

[bob in the woods]

I would suggest that a blank without a breech piece nor vent is just a rifled (or not) tube of machined (breech threads & octagonal flats) steel.
A flintlock barrel, with breech AND vent is the same as a matchlock barrel is not a firearm, however whomever checks the package has the final word and they dont give a $#@* about "accuracy".

And, they are some of the least knowledgable folks ref firearms in general

[Justin Urbantas]

After about 5 emails back and forth with the rcmp guys,  they still could not define exactly what constituted the "frame" of a muzzleloading pistol for registration.  Best answer I got was "not the barrel "  I'm not really sure how they can enforce things they can't even define. They're frustrating at the best of times.

[Daryl]

Heretofore, the barrel is where the S# is placed on a ML pistol as there is no frame.

[Justin Urbantas]

Heretofore, the barrel is where the S# is placed on a ML pistol as there is no frame.

[Blacksmoke]

To ship barrels in and out of Canada can be daunting at best. However I have shipped many through out the yrs. It goes a lot easier if you label the barrels as "tubing" not "gun barrels" . The Canadians get real worried about things called "guns"
and they do not like to think that they do not have control of things under your bed or in your closet!! "tubing" is your best bet!! H.T.

[Hudnut]

After about 5 emails back and forth with the rcmp guys,  they still could not define exactly what constituted the "frame" of a muzzleloading pistol for registration.  Best answer I got was "not the barrel "  I'm not really sure how they can enforce things they can't even define. They're frustrating at the best of times.

There has never been a competent, consistent definition of what constitutes the frame or receiver of a lock-stock-barrel muzzleloading gun.  Various opinions have been expressed by different CFP persons, but there is no standard.
May not matter right now, seeing as handguns can no longer be registered.

[Jakob]

After about 5 emails back and forth with the rcmp guys,  they still could not define exactly what constituted the "frame" of a muzzleloading pistol for registration.  Best answer I got was "not the barrel "  I'm not really sure how they can enforce things they can't even define. They're frustrating at the best of times.

So, I went through that discussion a few months back with my local CFO and with regards to muzzleloading firearms, the barrel will considered the receiver and needs to be registered. (When it comes to pistols). This means that any restoration of a pistol will have to use the original barrel.

(With the new rules, I was asking how much I could change on an antique pistol and still have it considered being an antique).
It's a real pain, as I got all the parts for a pistol, except a barrel.

[Justin Urbantas]

So, that means if you have an antique pistol barrel you could use all new parts except the barrel and it would be an antique?

[Hudnut]

I don't think there is any meaningful answer.
Saying that a pistol barrel is a pistol is silly.  Breeched or unbreeched?  If unbreeched, threaded for a plug?  These folks could put their time to better use, perhaps answering the question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.  A barrel for a modern pistol isn't a pistol, it is just a barrel.  Although you need a PAL to get one now.
If I were setting up a pistol using original parts, I think I would err on the side of caution and use an antique barrel.

[Amateroy321]

When I shipped to Canada I marked the info as rebuilt lock mechanism.To Germany I used German and no problem here or there.
Bob Roller

sounds like a good idea to me.

[Bill in Md]

When dealing with those  who seek to interfere with things in my life by instituting their will over me with "regulations", I always fall back on the advice my Father gave......"Be as wise as the serpent and as harmless as the dove"............In other words say, do, write, profess and pay lip service to these jackals if need be to get the end result you want.

[Daryl]

Back in the past, I received "machined tubing" from Pac-Nor barrel makers in the USA.

[Hudnut]

Barrel makers have got jacked up for doing that.

[Daryl]

What is the definition of jacked up

[Jakob]

So, that means if you have an antique pistol barrel you could use all new parts except the barrel and it would be an antique?

That what was I was told, but reading through this thread, who knows?