Black walnut bleach to resemble English walnut?

[smallpatch]

I am finishing a Kibler Fowler of black walnut.
It is VERY dark, like dark chocolate. I don’t like it that dark, so am pondering bleaching first, going back with some yellow, then Alkanet, hoping to make it look more like English walnut.
Any one tried this?
Thanks in advance.

[James Rogers]

Dave Person i know has used the yellow to kill the black walnut purple hue. I've done it on samples but not a gunstock yet.

[smart dog]

Hi Dane,
Try intense yellow first and see if that helps.  I suspect it will still be too dark when you apply finish.  Generally, dye stains do not change the natural color of the wood, rather they enhance or modify those colors.  You will probably need to bleach the stock.  Don't use Clorox bleach.  Instead paint the stock with sodium hydroxide (lye) first and let that dry.  Then paint it with hydrogen peroxide.  The two chemicals will lighten the wood a lot.  Just test some wood to determine the relative concentrations.  Do it mostly after the whiskering process and just before applying stain because you don't want to scrape or sand through the bleached layer of wood.  Remember, the bleached layer is probably no deeper than a stain layer.  After bleaching you may want to experiment with LMF's walnut stain along with alkanet root.  You should no longer need any yellow dye.

dave 

[Jim Kibler]

This is just a personal opinion...  I much prefer a deep rich and dark English walnut color rather than the lighter shades sometimes seen.  On older English walnut pieces, age has often given them this deep dark and reddish color, so I appreciate dark piece of walnut.  When I see a blonder color I say yuck!  I would probably just add some red and then call it good.  Here's an example of what I'm talking about. 

https://www.jimkibler.net/fowling-piece-1.html

[smallpatch]

Dave, I have some 2 part wood bleach that I got from Woodcraft. Tried a little in the barrel channel, and it lightened it some.
Not sure I’m ready to try it on the whole stock. Seems like it might raise a lot more whiskers?
I’ve whiskers with alcohol, maybe try water first?
Thanks all for your help. I’ll let you know how it comes out.
This wood is killing me. Need to get some finish on it.

[smart dog]

Hi Dane,
Good luck.  I really do not like most black walnut so I appreciate your problem. 

dave

[Daniel Coats]

Curious why walnut was ordered? Sell it and get something else rather than trying to make it look like a different wood makes more sense to me.

[smallpatch]

Its style calls for English walnut, but didn’t want to spend the money. Paying penance I guess.
If it was a lighter color, I would probably leave it.

[Bill Raby]

Doesn't Kibler cut stocks from wood that you send in? It would be a lot easier to just get a piece of English walnut. Bleach is not going to make wood go from open grain to closed grain.

[Steeltrap]

Well, if your rifle looks anything like the pic Jim posted I'd say you have a winner!!  Plus, it's not going to be like other Fowlers out there.

[JH Ehlers]

I prefer rich dark walnut stocks, don't make it too shiny finish, it looks good with iron or brass furniture. If you look at it long enough you'll start liking it.

[smart dog]

Hi Dane,
I am with you liking lighter, warmer colors of walnut, which is why I tried to answer your question rather than try and change your mind.  I would try whiskering with water first.  You might try bleaching any available scrap of black walnut you have to get an idea how the process works and what concentrations might work best.  It doesn't have to be a scrap from the stock to give you a sense of how to proceed.
 























dave

[Dphariss]

If a person knows the different woods its hard to make American look like European. Easier to just have a stock cut from European. Then it will look like European.

[Scota4570]

The two woods are different species.  They have little in common.  The color, grain, density, how they cut, how to best finish them are all different.  Making common American Black walnut look like English is probably not possible.  Real English grown slow in a dry place is very special. 

[Jim Kibler]

Everybody has their preferences with color, but to my eye it seems Smartdog has done a good job with working black walnut to more closely replicate English walnut.  Yes, they are different in many ways, but there are things that can be done to make them more similar. 

We're working on some English walnut sources, but it's not easy finding decent stuff at a decent price...

Jim

[Dphariss]

Build it, sell it, you will surely get more than the parts you have in it,  build another one and see if you can get the wood you want. Its not rocket science. Dunlap Woodcrafts dot com. Should have what you need. See if Jim Kibler will cut it for you.
I never could see forcing a stock to look like my preconceived notion of what color it should be.  I use the finish is as it would have been finished or close anyway. If I want European walnut I use that. The more you mess with changing the color the more likely you are to make it look worse. Unless its got some problem or its a repair.
I often wonder why people don’t just paint the thing the color they want.
And as a man I used to stock guns for once said; “Everyones taste is in their mouth”.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Dan I disagree with you.  English walnut the necessary lengths and sizes needed for muskets and fowlers is hard to come by, even from Dunlap, and very, very expensive.  Reality is that not everyone can afford it so should they never make an English gun that requires it?  By your logic, they shouldn't.  Anyway, Dane asked about bleaching black walnut.  All the advice given about liking dark color, staying with the natural color of the wood, getting another stock is not really very helpful.

dave

[Ron Scott]

I will concur that finding a piece of English Walnut in a size to carve one of Jim Kiblers Fowlers is very rare. I own about seventy blanks of English Walnut and only two have length and drop to accommodate the Kepler pattern.

[smallpatch]

Thanks Dave!
Working on the finish now….. it’s coming along nicely.
I’ll post when I’m done.

[smallpatch]

Trying to post photos, but site won’t let me.

[smallpatch]

Did not bleach the wood. Used yellow dye and Alkanet stain. Aged slightly, finished with spar varnish and Chambers oil finish.

[Stoner creek]

That’s a very pleasing color. I’m working on a piece of walnut right now. Will give that dye a try.
W

[smallpatch]

Wayne,
When I used the yellow dye, it was way too yellow. The Alkanet stain added a little red, I kinda like it.

[Stoner creek]

I’m thinking Transtint Honey Amber. What do you think?? It’s my go-to on maple. When dry it will give you a golden tint.

[Hungry Horse]

O.K. Small patch you made me glad I didn’t get on this forum  and get Dennis to pull the plug on my membership. You sure pulled this one out of the fire.I love the color, and have a black walnut stock on the shelf that I have been skipping over because it was just way too dark. The gloves are off now, look out black walnut its game on.

Hungry Horse