Common Rifle

[dannybb55]

Does any one have any info on the US Common Rifle. Specifically which version has an iron pan and the Valentine ring neck cock and which the Brass pan and the 1803 style cock? Also which versions had the flat lock plate? If that is too much work could y'all direct me to a good reference book. I can't buy the lock until I know which one I need. Thanks, Danny

[Nate McKenzie]

Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms Should give you the answer.

[dannybb55]

Thanks Nate

[wbgv]

based on 'The Warner Collectors Guide to American Longrifles',by Michael Madaus,here are the lock descriptions for the various early 'contract' and 'common' rifles:
US mod.1814=lockplate-flat with bevil edges,detachable brass pan witha reinforced rounded cock..
US mod 1807/1808=flat lockplate with integral iron faceted pan..flat faced goosenecked cock...
US mod 1803=flat lockplate with beveled edge,integral iron round pan with reinforced cock
US mod 1817=flat lockplate with beveled edge,detachable round brass pan reinforced round cock
Is this the info you need or did I miss your search ??

[Acer Saccharum]

Don Stith knows a lot about contract guns from that time period. I have not seen or heard from him in a long time.
Anyone been in touch with Don lately?

Tom

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I bought a set of parts for a J & S fullstocked Hawken last year...working on it now in fact.  Nice parts set.

[dannybb55]

based on 'The Warner Collectors Guide to American Longrifles',by Michael Madaus,here are the lock descriptions for the various early 'contract' and 'common' rifles:
US mod.1814=lockplate-flat with bevil edges,detachable brass pan witha reinforced rounded cock..
US mod 1807/1808=flat lockplate with integral iron faceted pan..flat faced goosenecked cock...
US mod 1803=flat lockplate with beveled edge,integral iron round pan with reinforced cock
US mod 1817=flat lockplate with beveled edge,detachable round brass pan reinforced round cock
Is this the info you need or did I miss your search ??

Close, I am trying to ID the rifle with the Iron pan, the heart shaped ring neck, flat faced plat with beveled edges. It has Deringer Philadel on the plate which doesn'et narrow it down much.

[TPH]

The lock you describe with a flat plate and faceted iron flash pan is not a "Common Rifle" lock. The "Common Rifle" is the US M1817 rifle with inclined brass pand and a plate with a rounded rear portion. Derringer did contract to make the Common Rifle but they were US standard rifles and did not have flat lock plates or faceted iron pans. Are you perhaps thinking of some of the state contract rifles made by Derringer? The ones for Maryland and Pennsylvania were of more or less standard "Kentucky Rifle" configuration with a flat, round tailed plate but they did not have the early faceted pans either. Can you post pictures of what you have?

The best reference book would be George D. Moller's "American Military Shoulder Arms: Volume 2".

[dannybb55]

Sorry, No pics on this one. I am just trying to get a handle on the Common rifle and production variants. I remember seeing them at gun shows for about 350 in the late 80s, about the cost of Moller's book. Did he hand print it on vellum or does he want the info to be of limited availability? . I would love to see the state rifles if there are any pictures around.

[TPH]

Just about any reference on US military arms will have reasonably good information on the M1817 with good photographs, try Reilly, Hicks and even Flayderman. Other than triggerguards there were really few variants, all, whether arsenal or contractor made, were made to the standard pattern. All M1817 Rifle locks had the rounded rear section and the inclined brass pan.

Too bad you didn't buy one at $350, that was a low price for a poor condition conversion even back then. As for Moller's book, it went through only one printing and when new (I bought my copy in '94) was $60 - more than reasonable for a book with that much accurate information, he certainly didn't get rich with those books. Current used prices on Vol. 2 are running between $425 and $625 on Abebooks, Vol. 1 is a little less but still expensive at $275 - $350. There may be reprints at some time, his work will never be surpassed, only supplemented. I understand he is ready to release Volume 3 (percussion era, post 1840) soon.

[Gunnermike]

Photo my 1817 built from TRS parts.  The 1814 & 1817 used the same lock.  I don't recognize the description of the lock you described with a flat plate.  Are you thinking of the 1803 variants?  Just a thought.  Mike

[TPH]

Gunnermike, that is beautiful! I also forgot the M1814 which was the initial banded rifle and almost identical to the M1817. The chief difference was that the M1814 had an octagon to round barrel and the M1817's barrel was round for the entire length. Locks were the same on the '14 and the '17 - both had the inclined brass pan. Deringer had contracts to produce both the 1814 and 1817.

[BobM]

The M1814 also had a checkpiece , different trigger guard and a 33"barrel. The "Common Rifle" has a 36" barrel. The M1814 was Blend of 1803 and Common Rifle features.

Bob M

[dannybb55]

Photo my 1817 built from TRS parts.  The 1814 & 1817 used the same lock.  I don't recognize the description of the lock you described with a flat plate.  Are you thinking of the 1803 variants?  Just a thought.  Mike

That must be it, I only saw the lock. That's a aweet rifle, what was the delivery time on the Parts set?

[dannybb55]

The M1814 also had a checkpiece , different trigger guard and a 33"barrel. The "Common Rifle" has a 36" barrel. The M1814 was Blend of 1803 and Common Rifle features.

Bob M

The '17 also had more pronounced drop, a more Penn less French feel to here. I just remember how well the '17 felt when I shouldered her. Bakers were about 350 too at that show, It seems that they were all perc. conversions from India. Naturally I was only bringing in 250 a week and going to school.

[Gunnermike]

Danny,  I ordered my parts through Track of the Wolf and most of the parts were shipped together.  A few parts were back ordered.  I have looked at Tracks website recently and most parts seem to be out of stock.  I did order the lock originally from The Rifle Shoppe and it took about 90 days to come from them.  Here's the finished piece...............



What you should know is that you have to make or buy all the screws.  I made all the lock and wood screws on my lathe.  I also made the ramrod and breechplug on my lathe as the plug that comes with the barrel is flared & too narrow at the breech to modify to work.  I welded up lots of casting flaws also.  This is what the lock parts look like when you receive them...........



Hope this helps, Mike