Author Topic: Off center enough to just leave it alone?  (Read 3088 times)

Offline Steeltrap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 774
Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« on: September 17, 2024, 12:10:23 AM »
When I drill holes that "must" be centered, I measure, measure again, and if the center punch is off, I file it, measure it again and do this at least twice.

I use a drill press and center drills to start the holes. My butt plate or toe plate's always come out perfect.....but I must have some malady when I drill tang holes.

The hole is closer to one side by .010 than the other. I know it's a ton of work to fix. I also know I overthink almost everything. I'm thinking I may be the only one who ever notices this.....but then, I notice all the mistakes on my builds.

Leave it alone or fix it?



Offline HSmithTX

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2024, 12:41:32 AM »
Leave it alone, or file the side of the tang down so that it looks a little more centered.  If the inlet is super tight you might get away with taking 4-5 thou off the side and go,  if the inlet is a hair loose you might have to glue a sliver in and that will get tedious for sure. I think I would leave it.

I understand where you are coming from, I am a machinist and CNC guy, I see something off center from a mile away and it drives me nuts too.

Online Stoner creek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2911
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2024, 12:47:55 AM »
Looks good. Roll on.
It’s nice that you care so much about little details. This one isn’t a big deal.
W
Stop Marxism in America

Offline JLayne

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 166
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2024, 12:48:26 AM »
It’s so slightly off center I wonder if it could be addressed with some needle file work and manipulation of the countersink bit. That’s not a suggestion, just my own curiosity. Either way, I doubt it will be very noticeable.

Jay

Offline Daniel Coats

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1401
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2024, 12:53:00 AM »
It will always bug you and a lot of people will notice it without saying anything. The only way I can get tang holes centered is clamp the bejesus out of everything. Mine are off a tiny amount after drilling even when perfectly marked otherwise. You might be able to correct it enough now by clamping before drilling for the screw head.
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline 2 shots

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 204
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2024, 02:32:19 AM »
 its hand  made, we are not always perfect. i like seeing things the show that. its not  by cnc. but i know how you feel. ;)

Offline Gaeckle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1360
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2024, 03:04:18 AM »
Looks good. Roll on.
It’s nice that you care so much about little details. This one isn’t a big deal.
W

As Wayne says....there are some antique barrels on display at the Log Cabin and not one is perfect. Don't fixate on minutia, roll on

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9687
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2024, 03:11:46 AM »
I have been off center for 88 years and that's a normal condition..............isn't it?
Bob Roller

Offline oldtravler61

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4413
  • We all make mistakes.
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2024, 04:08:27 AM »
   I spent years in quality control in a metal shop. I was a fanatic at flawless finishes. So I get that it concerns you. But if you spend a lot of time around original Longrifles. Well there not all perfection. So as Stoner says...let it go...

Offline mikeyfirelock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
  • Built 1st gun in dorm room at college
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2024, 04:52:19 AM »
I would be singing and dancing if I were that close to center.  Keep in mind that will not be noticed by anyone else, and the gun will shoot exactly the same as if the hole were .010 to the  other side.  It just makes it more like the old master’s work !
I know because I’ve been drilling holes much farther out than that since 1972……guns all shot just fine, and it seems no one cared when I sold the gun to them .
 mikeyfirelock
Mike Mullins

Offline Bob Gerard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1340
    • Powder Horns and Such
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2024, 05:03:06 AM »
I am guessing that you know what to do

Offline Daniel Coats

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1401
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2024, 05:26:49 AM »
Despite all the cumbaya fix it if you can.  ::)
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline Hungry Horse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5565
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2024, 08:11:37 AM »
 I’ve got an antique iron Southern mountain buttplate that has the same problem. So I guess it’s nothin’ new.

 Hungry Horse

















H

Online smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7905
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2024, 02:36:06 PM »
This has happened to me. Since, I use a slightly undersized bit and if it looks off a bit I do as JLayne I think suggested and use a small needle file and file some off of the " fat " side and then use the proper size bit.

Offline bluenoser

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 834
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2024, 02:46:21 PM »
It is only off by .005".  If it really bothers you, you should be able to pull it over with your countersink using the drill press and a vise.

Offline Steeltrap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 774
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2024, 03:02:27 PM »
I have been off center for 88 years and that's a normal condition..............isn't it?
Bob Roller

I don't have your "milage" yet....but there are days (at 68) when I perhaps feel like I've exceeded yours!!

I'll take a stab at the offset when I countersink it. Other than that, I'll leave it alone!!

Thanks Gent's. You are a treasure of knowledge.

Offline taterbug

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 215
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2024, 03:39:51 PM »
Good advice here. 

I'll try to remember the 'smaller pilot hole first' thing, then try to work it toward center with a bit of file work.

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9687
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2024, 03:57:07 PM »
NOthing is perfect and even the sun has spots ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Bob Roller

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2024, 04:36:06 PM »
I doubt I have ever drilled a hole exactly on center.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Eric Krewson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2024, 05:55:21 PM »
I move these types of holes over with a small rattail file and recut the counter sink very carefully.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2024, 03:36:08 PM by Eric Krewson »

Offline stan57

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2024, 06:10:51 PM »
I can stand stock pin divots, even minor blowouts. I can stand dents and scratches. I can stand most minor etc etc.

But... I CAN NOT stand off-center tang screw holes.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2024, 06:14:23 PM by stan57 »

Offline Roger B

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1643
  • You wouldn't have a snack, would you?
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2024, 07:25:48 PM »
Looks fine to me! I think that you're more likely to get a real mess if you keep going. I certainly have.
Roger B.
Never underestimate the sheer destructive power of a minimally skilled, but highly motivated man with tools.

Offline Scota4570

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2392
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2024, 07:28:37 PM »
Drills love to wander and make oversized holes.  Drilling manually makes it worse.  I do not like wonkie stuff on my builds.  IF I was drilling a tang manually I do it like this:

Make the punch mark with caliper scratch marks and a prick punch.  Then check the mark carefully with digital calipers.  Adjust it if necessary by steering the cone to the direction needed.  Then drill undersized.  Check the hole with digital calipers.  Correct the side to side with a file or carbide bur.  Once centered, clean it up with a larger bit.  IF it is now perfectly centered, drill to size.  I never drill an important hole in one shot, it is to risky.   

Or, use the milling machine.............

On the OP's question, I'd file it to make it centered.  Then make my piloted screw chamfer to fit the oversized hole.  IF necessary I'd make a screw to fit the hole.  I doubt that is needed.  The head is all that you see.  IF the hole for the stank is a bit large it does not matter. 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2024, 07:31:50 PM by Scota4570 »

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12671
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2024, 07:36:51 PM »
Is the hole for a #8 tang screw?  If so, use needle files to move the hole over as much as you dare, and then drill it for a #10 screw.  That should get the countersink for the head in the centre of the tang.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline B.Habermehl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1688
Re: Off center enough to just leave it alone?
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2024, 08:36:07 PM »
   I would file it to center. If you countersink you existing hole the off center issue will be more apparent with out correction.
  My normal procedure for drilling a tang bolt hole is as follows. Lay out for center useing hermaphrodite calipers. Prick punch recheck center. Center punch, then drill a pilot hole usually 5/64 dia. Check it for center. If ok counter sink the hole a bit larger than the diameter your clearance hole will finish at. If your pilot hole is off center nick the edge of the hole with a chisel on the side needing correction, then fudge with the countersink. The chisel nick will help draw the countersink toward your goal. After countersinking drill your clearance hole for your bolt. The drill will follow the funnel of the countersink to center as long as the countersink is centered. Then enlarge the countersink as needed.
  The human eye can pick up .005 off center if the margins on either side are 3/32  or a bit more. BJH
BJH