Blunt & Syms Half-stock Family Rifle

[G8rRanger]

Greetings. First Post so go easy on me. I did a search prior to popping off but am looking for other than what I had found.

Pics below are of our family rifle hanging above my grandparents fireplace with all their grandchildren as of December 1960. I am the one in the rocker!

The other photos I just took today to show some colleagues the incredible workmanship and artistry in the rifle. It functions great. It’s lacking the ramrod and the 2 ferrules on the barrel are missing. Even in 1960 one was gone as can be noted.

I’d really like to learn more about Blunt & Syms, generally, then try to tease out clues that might help home in on the manufacture date, etc.

It’s going to one of my 3 kids and then to one of our 6 grandkids so all I am looking for is any history you wise and experienced long rifle folks may have to share.

Question: If I wanted to restore its original appearance I.e. add the 2 rod holders and a ramrod, would I be doing genuine harm? I have no desire to sell it but want it as good as was in 1850. Am I wrong to consider that?

Look forward to whatever can be shared here.

[Seth Isaacson]

That is a very nice family heirloom.

Blunt & Syms was the partnership of Orison Blunt (1815-1879) and William Syms (1818-1889) in New York City c. 1837-1860s. The were both manufacturers and retailers. It seems their pepperboxes and small pistols are their better known products.

Here is one of their early ads from 1837:


The engraving might be by Thomas Joseph Barlow. His work for Blunt & Syms and later Colt is discussed in detail in Colt Factory Engravers of the Nineteenth Century by Herbert G. Houze:
https://www.amazon.com/Colt-Factory-Engravers-Nineteenth-Century/dp/1931464545

[Tanselman]

Your family heirloom rifle has exceptional engraving, even for a New York rifle, and a fine piece of walnut. If it were my rifle, I think a limited restoration, as you described with just two ramrod pipes and matching ramrod, would greatly benefit the rifle. However, with a rifle of that quality, I would have the work done by a knowledgeable [in Eastern/New York rifles] restorer to ensure everything matched properly in size, fit, finish, details, etc., including the ramrod with appropriate style metal tip and worm. 

Shelby Gallien

[OLUT]

Seth gave a good overview. For more detail, the book NYS Firearms Trade by Swinney has about 12 pages on B & S, including great images. You can GOOGLE Blunt & Syms rifles and get similar images to your gun. Attached is one from an Amoskeag Auction. If you want to add back the ramrod pipes, get it done by an antique gun professional; your family heirloom is too fine a piece to let just anybody work on it.

[DaveM]

Beautiful rifle and you are fortunate to have it as a family heirloom!

[G8rRanger]

Your family heirloom rifle has exceptional engraving, even for a New York rifle, and a fine piece of walnut. If it were my rifle, I think a limited restoration, as you described with just two ramrod pipes and matching ramrod, would greatly benefit the rifle. However, with a rifle of that quality, I would have the work done by a knowledgeable [in Eastern/New York rifles] restorer to ensure everything matched properly in size, fit, finish, details, etc., including the ramrod with appropriate style metal tip and worm. 

Shelby Gallien

Curious RE your comment "even for a New York rifle".  What makes NY rifles different from otyhers of the era?

[smokinbuck]

Your rifle is a beautiful example of work of the period. I have a Blunt & Sims under hammer pepperbox that is engraved, as was typical on the grip strap and action,  but is otherwise a plain Jane. other tha

[cshirsch]

Where is your rifled signed?  Barrel, lock?  Mine is not signed but certainly appears to be made by the same person. 

[OLUT]

Where is your rifled signed?  Barrel, lock?  Mine is not signed but certainly appears to be made by the same person. 

I agree with your attribution. It compares quite closely to other similar high quality half stocked guns that carry the B&S marking. ( Note that I also have an unmarked long gun that is clearly a Blunt & Syms manufacture )

[G8rRanger]

Where is your rifled signed?  Barrel, lock?  Mine is not signed but certainly appears to be made by the same person. 

That is amazing!  Yours is like a twin to our rifle.  The engraving is almost identical and the deer in the butt stock is a match.  I haven't found anything like a signature but an astute observer above in the thread named a well-known B&S engraver that also worked for Colt.

I'd be grateful for some pictures of the ramrod holder and the ramrod.  I will be looking to repair those missing items and want to put parts that will resemble an original as close as possible.

[JV Puleo]

I doubt that Blunt & Syms "made" anything. They were merchants...what would be interesting is to find out who did make what they sold. I'd guess the unsigned example was simply sold by someone else.

[OLUT]

I doubt that Blunt & Syms "made" anything. They were merchants...what would be interesting is to find out who did make what they sold. I'd guess the unsigned example was simply sold by someone else.

There are several references to B & S manufacturing various type firearms as well as importing . The US Industrial Census of 1850 provides some detail of this manufacturing, including his employment of "50 hands". And it would indeed be interesting to have a full list of how B & S marked the  entire stock of the guns that they acquired from the estate of Edwin Wesson in 1851.

[Bob Roller]

Your family heirloom rifle has exceptional engraving, even for a New York rifle, and a fine piece of walnut. If it were my rifle, I think a limited restoration, as you described with just two ramrod pipes and matching ramrod, would greatly benefit the rifle. However, with a rifle of that quality, I would have the work done by a knowledgeable [in Eastern/New York rifles] restorer to ensure everything matched properly in size, fit, finish, details, etc., including the ramrod with appropriate style metal tip and worm. 

Shelby Gallien

Curious RE your comment "even for a New York rifle".  What makes NY rifles different from otyhers of the era?

The New Yorkers stay snowed in 9 months out of 12 and I have noticed the Northern half stocks of any maker seem to have strong attention to detailing and have been my favorite American rifles for about 70 years. N.G.Whitmore had the rogjt idea and he was in Potsdam,NY.
I wish I had kept my Whitmore.It had only a butt stock that was very close in profile to the Grant Rifle and also a false muzzle and telescope full length of the barrel.Double set triggers and silver butt plate and trigger guard.  Yankee workmanship.
Bob Roller

[Seth Isaacson]

I doubt that Blunt & Syms "made" anything. They were merchants...what would be interesting is to find out who did make what they sold. I'd guess the unsigned example was simply sold by someone else.

There are several references to B & S manufacturing various type firearms as well as importing . The US Industrial Census of 1850 provides some detail of this manufacturing, including his employment of "50 hands". And it would indeed be interesting to have a full list of how B & S marked the  entire stock of the guns that they acquired from the estate of Edwin Wesson in 1851.

Like a lot of dealers, they imported/bought in a lot of stuff, but they do appear to have produced their own pistols and pepperboxes from what I recall seeing, and there are period references about their factory/plant and employees such as "men and boys of the in the factory of Messrs. Blunt & Syms" mentioned in Report of the Special Committee Appointed by the Common Council of the City of New York
Relative to the Catastrophe in Hague Street, on Monday, February 4th, 1850.