caped hunting frock

[colt]

anybody know a good source for a linen caped hunting frock? not trying to start anything here ? , but are they period correct prior to 1770? thanks

[Randy Hedden]

I believe that the consensus of opinion is that the caped hunting frock was not worn during the F&I War, 1754 - 1763, but shows up early during the American War for Independence, 1775 - 1783.   The two ranger/rifleman regiments that were formed in Virginia and surrounding areas and marched to Boston, to aid Washington at the July/August 1775 Siege of Boston were described as wearing the hunting frocks.  By the end of the war many regular regiments were outfitted in hunting frocks because of a lack of regular uniforms for the continentals.  So we can place the caped hunting frock as far back as 1775, but it was most surely worn on the frontier before that time.

Personally, I would not wear a caped hunting frock. I had one many years ago and found the cape to be such a hassle that I cut the cape part off of the frock.  The cape blows up around you head when not held down with a hunting pouch and/or powder horn strap.  I also found the cape to get wrapped up under the straps of a hunting pouch or powder horn straps and tended to get bunched up under a backpack or rucksack. The cape or even a double cape did not, as many say, tend to keep you dryer in rainy weather.

If you Google "caped hunting frock" you should find several suppliers.

Randy Hedden

[wvmtnman]

For that particular year, I would get a very heavy and much larger hunting shirt and cut it down the middle.  Then you could use it like a open fron frock and wrap it arounf the front and keep it closed with a belt.  I have a heavy linen double caped hunting frock that I hand sewed then dyed in walnut hauls.  I use it often but my "time period" is a little later than yours.  I aim for 1777.  I am sure I look like a dandy coming throught the woods.  Buckle shoes, side button gaitors, drop front knee britches, brown checked linen shirt, red weskit, tricorn,  and my hunting frock. I go for the English" look not the native look.
                                                                                      Brian

[LRB]

  Wallace Gusler, according to his research, believes they appeared in the early 1760's, and very possibly in the 1750's, and were fringed and open in the front.

[Dphariss]

 Wallace Gusler, according to his research, believes they appeared in the early 1760's, and very possibly in the 1750's, and were fringed and open in the front.

I find this very enlightening.
I have often wondered how it was that the "rifleman's frock" or whatever one might call it suddenly appeared (according to some) in widespread use overnight in 1776.
But there are folks out there that go in convulsions at the thought of a riflemans shirt pre American Revolution.
The mere mention of "rifleman's shirt" in the 1760s makes some apoplectic it seems
They can't even get comfortable with a farmers/wagoneers frock/smock.
Dan

[Mike R]

There are period written references to hunting shirts/frocks in the 1760s, implying to me at least that they could have existed as early as the 1750s [or they sprang up all of a sudden in 1760?].  The basic problem is that I know of no detailed description of them prior to the 1770s, by which time they are both written about and depicted in artwork.  By the 1770s they are typically caped and open fronted and fringed.  Colors vary from natural tans of unbleached linen to white bleached linen, black, green, brown, indigo, etc...

[T.C.Albert]

I thought the riflemans frock was an off shoot of a standard drovers coat?
Or maybe that applies to the closed hunting shirt?
TCA

[Artificer]

Personally, I would not wear a caped hunting frock. I had one many years ago and found the cape to be such a hassle that I cut the cape part off of the frock.  The cape blows up around you head when not held down with a hunting pouch and/or powder horn strap.  I also found the cape to get wrapped up under the straps of a hunting pouch or powder horn straps and tended to get bunched up under a backpack or rucksack. The cape or even a double cape did not, as many say, tend to keep you dryer in rainy weather.

Randy Hedden

Those are almost the exact same experiences I had with a caped frock years ago.  Grin.  I tend to think the capes were for style rather than for use.  Even when capes are made of deerskin or even a double layer of heavy wool, they tend to fly up in your face in a wind. 

Gus

[Willy]

anybody know a good source for a linen caped hunting frock? not trying to start anything here ? , but are they period correct prior to 1770? thanks

         Howdy,
 Try here:   Trail Head Trading-Mike Branson
       Good quality garments. Don't wish to enter the shirt/frock fray.
              Willy              http://www.trailhd.com/

[T*O*F]

anybody know a good source for a linen caped hunting frock?

What size are you?  I have one in 2X that I thought would fit me because of the open front.  I was wrong.  Only wore it once. 

ps...it was too big, not too small.

[b bogart]

Too big how Dave? Sleeves, chest? I am somewhat of a big guy and I might be interested.
Bruce

[T*O*F]

Bruce,
I wear an X-large shirt because I have broad shoulders, but only a 36" waist.  The 2X was too big for me all over.

[smokinbuck]

Dave,
What are you asking ($) and can you send me a pic. I have one that has never been worn and is to small for me.
Mark

[b bogart]

Hey Dave, mee too what Mark requested. It may be too small for me but I'd like to see it and ask a couple more questions.
Thanks
Bruce

[colt]

Thanks for all the info. mark, do you have one thats too small? i am a med to large. not to big
Ken

[smokinbuck]

Ken,
I do, but it may be to large for you, I think it is a L/XL. I wear a XXL and it just gets around me. It has not been worn, has a double cape and fringe on the cuffs, cape and body. The cuffs and cape have pewter buttons. I can shoot a picture if you have an interest.
Mark

[Sequatchie Rifle]

Go with Mike Branson!

http://www.trailhd.com/  Trail Head Trading

[mr. no gold]

I have wanted a frock too, but there is some question as to when they came into fashion. I think that I will go with the 'Match Coat" which is documented by a painting done in 1762 by John Parsons, of a Cherokee chief named Cunne Shote, (also known as Stalking Turkey; the painting is rather famous). He is somewhat fierce looking, and holds a fine frontier knife in his hand. He is wearing a fancy '...Coat' which is really just a cloak.
I ran across this in the Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly (Vol 33, #4; Winter 1997) in which the article ran ten years ago. The author even included a pattern suitable to making such a grament, the appropriate material and suggested materials to make a fancy version using 'tinsel, or caddis'. There seems to have been a strong trade in cloth for this apparel.
The Match Coat was described as early as 1705 and was widely worn by Indians and the Euro settlers for much of the 1700s. George Washington was described as wearing one in the F&I War in 1754.
Anyone curious, or wanting to make one, can contact the Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, NB and inquire about it. Gail DeBuse Potter was the author.
Dick

[Buffler Razz]

I won't get into the debate on PC, don't know enough about that. I did buy mine from Mary Ann Poore. She attends Rondy's here in the north east and does great work. Her email is mpoore1 at rochester.rr.com
Her card also lists her ebay ID as: colonialneedleandthread

[omark]

as far as the cape keeping you drier, i understood that the cape was waterproofed with oils such as linseed. it seems to me that would help across the shoulders. has anyone tried this? was i misinformed?    mark

[Kermit]

Thanks for the Mike Branson link. With some trepidation I took a look at his prices. I don't think I can buy the materials for much less than his shirt prices!

[Randy Hedden]

as far as the cape keeping you drier, i understood that the cape was waterproofed with oils such as linseed. it seems to me that would help across the shoulders. has anyone tried this? was i misinformed?    mark

Someone back then might have tried linseed oil as a water proofer for the cape, but I would suggest that you don't try it today.  Material that has been soaked or painted with linseed oil is very flammable and can burst into flames from a couple of good sparks landing on it.  If you had a linseed oil treated cape a spark from a camp fire or a few errant sparks from a flintlock could set the cape on fire.  Even when the material was treated with linseed several years ago it still remains flammable.

Randy Hedden

[pulaski]

I have one with a cape . I don't find the cape to get in the way or flap about my head , but I am not out in the open . The cape has been rubbed down with bear oil and will shed water rather well . (read , not water proof )
I think the fringe is there for wicking puposes .I have noticed that after it rain/drizles the shoulder area dries and the fringe seems to pull the moisture out to it .
Just my two cents
Thanks , Steve

[Artificer]

Am I the only one who ever had real problems keeping a wrap around frock CLOSED in front when it's cold or the wind is blowing?  I've also had problems with a wrap around opening up and tangling up in straps.  I finally put a couple early style hooks and eyes to keep the front flaps closed when I wanted them closed - like the ones shown here:

http://www.wmboothdraper.com/

I finally gave up open front frocks about 35 years ago and made a buckskin coat with antler buttons when it was cold or used another heavy rifleman's shirt over a lighter weight rifleman's shirt when it wasn't as cold.   

[Trkdriver99]

I keep the front of mine closed with a belt or a sash, pulled around, over wrapped and belted.

I like mine and have no problem with the capes flying in the wind.

Ronnie