Just bend that brass buttcap a little....SNAP

[Steeltrap]

Thanks gents for your advice and encouragement. As I was coming home from archery hunting this am I was passing a Harbor Freight. So, being the impatient one that I am I stopped and picked up there dome set. Not as big as I wanted but they sure did help.

I have it formed and cut off additional material which made a big difference. I don't have pics right now but I'll post when I do.

Again, Thanks!!

[Steeltrap]

I'm getting closer. Still some bumps to remove and some shaping\removing material to be done. The Dapping punches helped a bunch.

The third pic I'm showing where I need to shape it more....plus that "bump" on the lower rear.

[Steeltrap]

Moving along.....

[coopersdad]

Looks like you're about ready to inlet!  I wished I'd left a bit more wood on mine at that point like you have.

[Steeltrap]

Yes. I'm starting the inlet. I'm not going to polish it all up then keep banging it around while inletting.

Lessons I've learned from this:

1-Don't cut more material than you need. The brass thins out and stretches.
2-Use Dapping punches. Ball peen will get you there....but with a very lumpy exterior that requires a lot of filing.
3-Having to much material and a constant whacking on the brass to get the outside dimensions smaller will really thin out the bottom of the brass. This bottom is down to (my guess) .010. I soft soldered a piece on the inside to provide strength and have enough material to counter sink a screw.
4-It ain't as easy as it looks. OTOH....it's not as hard as I made it.

[coopersdad]

Yes, my experience too. I started with .090 brass and it was about .040
on the bottom when done.

[Rolf]

Yes. I'm starting the inlet. I'm not going to polish it all up then keep banging it around while inletting.

Lessons I've learned from this:

3-Having to much material and a constant whacking on the brass to get the outside dimensions smaller will really thin out the bottom of the brass. This bottom is down to (my guess) .010. I soft soldered a piece on the inside to provide strength and have enough material to counter sink a screw.
4-It ain't as easy as it looks. OTOH....it's not as hard as I made it.

If the brass thins this much, you are hitting too hard and not annealing often enough.
Please read this tutorial I did for making spurred butt cap.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=32410.0
Read the paragraph with the heading "Swaging the cup".
I started with 0.08 thick brass. The bottom of the cup is 0.075, measured through the screw hole.
When making this cup, I annealed over 60 times.

That being said, you have a good looking butt cap and soldering a piece of brass to strengthen the screw hole is good solution. I did the same the on the silver Kentucky pistols.

Best regards
Rolf

[Steeltrap]

Thanks Rolf.

I did read (just now) your tutorial and agree with your directions. However, I did not make any wooden punches. I think my biggest mistake was not paying close attention to the amount of material that simply wasn't needed. The second mistake was using way too much ball peen hammer. To much ball peen results in a bumpy cup and then you spend more time removing bumps that you would like to.

When I sized the brass I took my broken cast piece as a model. Rolling it on the sheet brass from front to back, and side to side to get the outer rim dimensions....then I (mistakingly) added a bit more thinking I could just cut off the excess. (Which you can if you pay very close attention to the depth of the cup you're making).

So, as I kept pounding the upper sides and bottom to push the metal diameter I got the bottom of the cup very thin. Then when I measured the cup from base to rim I saw I needed to cut off another 3/16" or so. And that was the second time I cut the material. I simply wasn't paying attention to the cup depth as I was focused on the cup lip diameter.

[Steeltrap]

I have learned a lot peening this buttcap. Like how to make big mistakes, then fix it....only to later realize the fix wasn't enough. So I went for fix #2 and that didn't go well at all. So....now I'm onto buttcap #2....the sequel!!

As I was inletting the buttcap to the pistol, I pressed on the cap heavy with the palm of my hand. I then heard\felt a "crunch" and knew that wasn't a good sign.



So, as it turned out because of my bad method of peening, I had thinned out the bottom of the buttcap to likely under ten thousands. After I drilled the center hole I knew the bottom was very thin so before I moved on, I soldered a reinforcement piece into it. (This was before the crunch)

Then, after the crunch I decided to solder in a second piece.



And after that I filed the piece again....only to discover that I should have put a bigger reinforcement piece in....or so I thought.

However, I then decided to put a bigger reinforcement piece in, and then solder it up with brass color solder. Well....the heat on the thin brass just made a mess of things. (Live and learn)



So, now with some experience under my belt, I'm pounding out a second buttcap. I know I began inletting the first, but I have plenty of wood left to work this new piece in when it's ready.

 

I'm not a big fan of posting my mistakes, but if this helps anyone either now or in the future to fashion a buttcap from sheet brass, maybe this thread will help and save some grief!!

[Rolf]

When you first don't sucede try, try again. You'll get there .
Don't know if you have seen this tutorial, I wrote for this type of butt cap.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=6615.0

It shows how to draw a pattern for this type of butt cap. Making your blank smaller at the transition between the cup and the tang will make the shaping easier.

Best regards
Rolf

[Steeltrap]

Thanks Rolf. I had not seen this thread before. It will be very helpful.

I went back and noticed this link was inside the thread you had posted in your last post. I obviously missed it the first time.

[Steeltrap]

Moving along when I have time to punch some brass!!

This buttcap is deep...at least I think so. From the bottom of the cap to the lip (not the tang) it's .900. Working\shrinking the circumference to get the OD to about 1.5" left to right, and 1.7" front to back does take some time.

I've punched the bottom out as far as it's gong to go. The brass sheet was .080 and the bottom of the bell now measures just over .030. So I don't want to drive that any deeper.

Now I'm working on the sides to the top. I have the Dapping punch in the vice and I'm tapping and turning to push metal up and shrink the circumference. You can see the Buttcap #1 sitting on the bench. It's at least a model for the measurements. Here's the progress so far:

[Rolf]

 This one looks a lot better than the first attempt. I think the main reason the bottom of the bell/cup thinned/stretched is because you did not shape/work the tang at the same time.
At this point, the tang should have been almost 90 degrees to the rim of the bell.


When moving the brass down into the swage you will quickly get a crease where the tang meets the bell. Look at the lines and arrows. The blank gets caught up on this crease and instead of moving down into the block, the bell part stretches.





As soon as this crease appears, it needs to be ironed out using a large punch as an anvil. This also starts curving the tang and moving it in the right direction.







Best regards
Rolf