Just bend that brass buttcap a little....SNAP

[Steeltrap]

I annealed it. And didn't hit it hard, but on the second hit (again, not hard) SNAP!!

I just needed a little bit more of the tab closer to the center in order to match the contour of the grip. I want the buttcap to tilt slightly up from the rear. I didn't need much movement of the tab.....but I certainly got more that I wanted!

I'm going to blame it on casting voids. Maybe you can tell from the pics....but these pics I already began to file the break. I think I can get the angle right silver soldering it back together. I need to square up the break...that will lose maybe 150-thousands on the length, but that's not much.

I thought I'd file a small bevel on each broken piece, fill it with SS, as I will attempt to make it look like that silver solder joint look like that silver line is suppose to be there.

Any other ideas are more than welcome.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

A buttcap like that is quite a nice project, if you form it out of sheet brass.  Use brass in the 1`/16" thick neighbourhood, make a formed out of maple, both a male and female former, anneal the brass piece and have at it.  Anneal frequently by heating the piece of brass red and allowing it to cool or quench in water at room temp.  There's enough brass in that casting of yours to make two caps!
Here's a few sheet metal buttcaps made this way.

[Robby]

I would make sure it is brass before I went to the trouble of cobbling together a fixture to hold everything in place. Just scrape or sand a spot on the inside of the cap, flux it, apply heat and see if the solder will flow, using all the same materials to be used in the actual fusing. Good luck!!!!!
Robby

[Steeltrap]

My initial plan was to form a buttcap from sheet brass. The plus about that is contouring the tang of the BP would be easier than the cast ones.

I could use this cast BP to help form both the male and female maple forms for working with the sheet brass.

I'll have to think about that one. 

[Dphariss]

Is it bronze? If so it will not bend. I buy brass colored silver solder from Rio Grande jewelry supply. Can see the joint unless you dunk it is acid then it cane polished down to disappear again.

[Bill Raby]

The alloy used in most of those casting will break if you quench it after heating. Let it air cool and it bends fine.

[Rolf]

These caps are easy to make. Here is how I do it.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=6615.0

Best regards
Rolf

[Bill Madden]

If the casting is from TOW, it is not brass but probably either manganese bronze or silicon bronze, neither of which in my experience can be successfully annealed using either an air or a water quench. Ryan at MBS has what you need in a casting that is either yellow brass or cartridge brass. He is very fussy whith his foundries and if the casting is not mallable when received, he rejects the whole lot and has even switched foundries that don't deliver what he wants.

[Steeltrap]

I’m just going to make on from sheet brass. But this cast one will be a perfect item to carve a mold from maple. Outside & inside.

[Clark Badgett]

If the casting is from TOW, it is not brass but probably either manganese bronze or silicon bronze, neither of which in my experience can be successfully annealed using either an air or a water quench. Ryan at MBS has what you need in a casting that is either yellow brass or cartridge brass. He is very fussy whith his foundries and if the casting is not mallable when received, he rejects the whole lot and has even switched foundries that don't deliver what he wants.

I’ve never received bronze parts from TOW.

[Steeltrap]

Started the process. The broken one worked great to creat the maple die. I initially "grabbed" the tang with vice grips. Bad idea. I filed off the grip marks on the outside and now use a piece of scrap brass between the vice grip and the tang.   

[Steeltrap]

This is the first buttcap I've made. It's not as easy as it looks so I have a new found appreciation for those who hammer metals. It's coming along. Slower than I thought.....but getting there.

[Daryl]

Well along on the journey.

[Rolf]

A few tips:
1.Your blank is too big for butt cap. The more excess metal, the more metal to move and the harder it is to shape.
2. Your blank is not symmetrical. This creates uneven tension and makes the blank harder to shape and prone to twisting.
3. Score a marks on the blank and the wood block, so you can place the blank in the same position for hammering.
4. Start curving the tang, or you will get a flat surface in the back of the cup.
5. It looks like you're using a ball hammer and hitting too hard, stretching the brass. This gives a bumpy, uneven surface. If, using a ball point hammer, tap lightly, anneal often, don't stretch the metal. A large ball punch is a better option. Look for one almost big enough to fill the cup.
6. Hit symmetrical. If you hit the blank on the left side, hit the same spot on the right side next.

Best regards
Rolf

[Steeltrap]

A few tips:
1.Your blank is too big for butt cap. The more excess metal, the more metal to move and the harder it is to shape.
2. Your blank is not symmetrical. This creates uneven tension and makes the blank harder to shape and prone to twisting.
3. Score a marks on the blank and the wood block, so you can place the blank in the same position for hammering.
4. Start curving the tang, or you will get a flat surface in the back of the cup.
5. It looks like you're using a ball hammer and hitting too hard, stretching the brass. This gives a bumpy, uneven surface. If, using a ball point hammer, tap lightly, anneal often, don't stretch the metal. A large ball punch is a better option. Look for one almost big enough to fill the cup.
6. Hit symmetrical. If you hit the blank on the left side, hit the same spot on the right side next.

Best regards
Rolf

Rolf, thank you for your comments. I'll respond in the same order you have listed:

1. Yes. I have far too much metal. Trimming it is in order.
2. Symmetry started out......I will attempt to fix that (again)
3. Good advice
4. More good advice
5. I began with a ball peen hammer. At this point I'm using a rounded brass punch about 1/4" in diameter. I do anneal often to avoid any crack(s)
6. Good advice

Thanks again!!

[Rolf]

Just a comment on annealing. Brass work hardens very quickly. Cracks appear when you try to force work harden brass to move. You have to anneal way before this happens
Always anneal when light blows don't move the brass. When swagging the cup, you anneal for every 1/6 to 1/8 increase of depth. The deeper you go, the quicker the blank work hardens.

The punches I use for this type of butt caps are diameter: 40mm( 1.6"), 34mm(1.4") and 27mm(1.06").

Here is a link to a pair of pistols I made, with this type of butt cap. 
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14643.msg137610#msg137610

Best regards
Rolf

[JTR]

Rolf,
Your pistols are still some of the most beautiful I've ever seen!
John

[Steeltrap]

Just a comment on annealing. Brass work hardens very quickly. Cracks appear when you try to force work harden brass to move. You have to anneal way before this happens
Always anneal when light blows don't move the brass. When swagging the cup, you anneal for every 1/6 to 1/8 increase of depth. The deeper you go, the quicker the blank work hardens.

The punches I use for this type of butt caps are diameter: 40mm( 1.6"), 34mm(1.4") and 27mm(1.06").

Here is a link to a pair of pistols I made, with this type of butt cap. 
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14643.msg137610#msg137610

Best regards
Rolf

Very nice pistols you have made.

I set the piece aside until I get the proper tools to work this. Thank you for providing the sizes.

I've looked on Amazon but some of the reviews are not the best. I'm thinking it's imported China made.

But I did find these https://pepetools.com/products/individual-dapping-punches?variant=7720140537909 and I can buy individual punches instead of a set that I won't use 90% of. I think (I don't have the piece in front of me right now) the outside dimensions are 1.7" by 1.5". So, subtracting off the .080 x 2= .160 the inside dimensions would be 1.54"x1.34".

So, I think the sizes to get would be 27.9 (1.098") 31.8 (1.252") and 34.2 (1.346").  Does that make sense?

[dadybear1]

REMEMBER THE METAL BEING CAST MIGHT NOT BE TO SPECS OR ABLE TO BE MALEABLE...  I RAN INTO SAME ISSUE WITH CAST GUARD I WAS TRYING TO TWEEK( NOT TWERK) LOL...  OLD WELDER TOLD ME CAST MATERIAL ISNT AS FORGIVING AS ROLLED SHEET ETC!!!

[T*O*F]

One thing you have to remember about these old sand castings.  They have an incredibly hard shell around them that probably contains slag and sometimes sand granules embedded in it.  Running a file across it will give you the willies and make you want to grind it off with a Dremel tool or a belt sander.  It don't make any difference if you try to anneal it in this state, it won't and the shell will crack with subsequent failure of the part. 
ALWAYS remove this shell and get down to virgin brass before trying to anneal or bend the part, or suffer the inevitable consequences.

[Jim Kibler]

One thing you have to remember about these old sand castings.  They have an incredibly hard shell around them that probably contains slag and sometimes sand granules embedded in it.  Running a file across it will give you the willies and make you want to grind it off with a Dremel tool or a belt sander.  It don't make any difference if you try to anneal it in this state, it won't and the shell will crack with subsequent failure of the part. 
ALWAYS remove this shell and get down to virgin brass before trying to anneal or bend the part, or suffer the inevitable consequences.

This is all news to me.  As a metallurgist and a gunmaker who has used loads of sand cast brass parts, I've never been aware or concerned about a "hard shell".

[coopersdad]

Steeltrap, I've only made two caps, and it was frustrating but very rewarding when it was done. Rolf is right, cut down the blank as soon as you know it's too big. In the first photo I had waited too long and bent metal I was just going to file away.   The two I made were of thicker sheet, about .090.  It bends a bit slower but I was glad for the extra thickness when it came to inletting. 

For the tang, I cut some shallow grooves in the block to help form them to the stock curve.  Once you get it close, you can drill the hole and screw it into the form, which helped getting it symmetrical. 

I mostly used the ball peen hammer, but did use some round punches.  They aren't as big as I'd like but did work.  I got them from Harbor Freight, they call them doming punches, and a set is about $40.  I use them on entry pipes too. 

Keep at it!  Jack Brooks told me that when forming brass, it's hardly ever ruined, just keep annealing and working it.  I recalled that at one point when doing this one, so I fished it out of the trash and sure enough, it eventually fit!!

[Bob Gerard]

Well look at that! Great work 🙂

[Clark Badgett]

Well look at that! Great work 🙂

Agreed, that cap looks like it grew there.

[Rolf]

I set the piece aside until I get the proper tools to work this. Thank you for providing the sizes.

I've looked on Amazon but some of the reviews are not the best. I'm thinking it's imported China made.
But I did find these https://pepetools.com/products/individual-dapping-punches?variant=7720140537909 and I can buy individual punches instead of a set that I won't use 90% of. I think (I don't have the piece in front of me right now) the outside dimensions are 1.7" by 1.5". So, subtracting off the .080 x 2= .160 the inside dimensions would be 1.54"x1.34".

So, I think the sizes to get would be 27.9 (1.098") 31.8 (1.252") and 34.2 (1.346").  Does that make sense?

It depends on the curve you are trying to introduce to the metal. A 40mm punch is great for evening out the curve in the shallow depression when you are starting the blank down in the block. It also works good as an anvil to start the tang curving and moving in the right direction.

I looked at pepe tools and I think I'd choose 27.9, 34.2 and 38,1

Best regards
Rolf