Lightest profile fowler barrel

[Justin Urbantas]

Who makes the lightest profile octagon to round 20 ga fowler barrel?
Looking at 42-46" length  and wanting to make a proper lightweight fowler.
Cheers

[rich pierce]

Rice has some made of 4140. Very light.

[WKevinD]

Rice has some made of 4140. Very light.

Rich, is that what Rice's Dewlep fowler barrels are made with?

Kevin

[Top Jaw]

I have a 42” 62 cal oct-round barrel from Larry Zornes at the Mold & Gun Shop.  Good thin walls in the round portion.  Makes for a nice handling smoothbore.  Shoots RBs well also.  Mine was made up into a walnut-stocked “smooth rifle” with a cheek piece, squared off toe, but a fowler guard.

[rich pierce]

Rice has some made of 4140. Very light.

Rich, is that what Rice's Dewlep fowler barrels are made with?

Kevin

I don’t think so. Maybe they were special runs. I lucked into a couple. They are probably worth $450 now. I know Dave Person’s apprentice Maria used one on a build. An officer’s fusil, I think. The Rice French Fusil Modified barrel is big at the breech and light. My last build with a 42” barrel came in at 6 and 3/4 pounds complete.

[Randall Steffy]

I have purchased two Rice Dolep .54 cal, or nearly 28 ga. x 41" smooth barrels now, 4140, as I recall. I made a fowling piece for my grandson with one, which came in at 4# 13 oz. finished, a surprisingly light gun.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Those Dolep fowler barrels feel like a feather.  I know there were some done in 4140, but there also seem to be some in standard whatever Rice uses (12L I believe) because I've had two and one was a mother****** to file and work, and the other was just like any other Getz/Colerain etc.

They are seriously light barrels.

[Randall Steffy]

My Rice 28 ga. Dolep barrel weighs 35-1/2oz. and it has a muzzle thickness of 0.040".

[Justin Urbantas]

Seems like the Dolep is the way to go. Thanks

[smart dog]

Hi,
The Rice Dolep barrels are very light and made with 4140 steel.  They are of an older late 17th an early 18th century design so they are not appropriate in profile for mid to late 18th century fowlers.  Remember, Andreas Dolep was a Dutch immigrant to London working during 1690-1715 or so. The light barrels are great for bird hunting with shot but not so good if you are mainly shooting patched round ball for deer or other game. Maria uses her fowler during Rev War reenactments.  She loves the gun but has to protect her hands from being burned because the thin barrel heats up during use particularly in bright sun.

dave

[Justin Urbantas]

So a 1760 gun would be a stretch?

[rich pierce]

We make compromises with many of our builds.  Most customers don’t want an 11 pound SMR (though many were 9-11 pounds) or a 10 pound S Hawken rifle (what many of them weighed) or a 12 pound Hudson Valley fowler in 10 gauge. So we make compromises and try to keep the architecture right.

A lot of trade guns were very light with thin barrels. They can be hard to source.

Seems like 10 years ago all the smoothbore barrels available had thick walls all the way to the muzzle.

[Clark Badgett]

We make compromises with many of our builds.  Most customers don’t want an 11 pound SMR (though many were 9-11 pounds) or a 10 pound S Hawken rifle (what many of them weighed) or a 12 pound Hudson Valley fowler in 10 gauge. So we make compromises and try to keep the architecture right.

A lot of trade guns were very light with thin barrels. They can be hard to source.

Seems like 10 years ago all the smoothbore barrels available had thick walls all the way to the muzzle.

The Rice type G is very light and perfect for trade guns thru 1820 give or take.

[foxm2015]

Ken Netting or Larry Horrigan may be an option.

[smart dog]

Hi Justin,
The key to a fine English fowler, if that is your intention, is to have it thick in the breech, taper rapidly to the wedding band or transition (if it has one), and then taper slowly to the muzzle.  Rice's Griffin profile barrel with a 1.125" wide breech might be a good option.  Their French fowler with 1.25" breech might also work but it does not taper enough from the breech for my preference. The Dolep barrels are too skinny in the breech.  However, Jason is making one for Maria with a larger breech.  My shop should be getting it soon and I will post a description for you when it arrives.

dave

[James Rogers]

Hi Justin,
The key to a fine English fowler, if that is your intention, is to have it thick in the breech, taper rapidly to the wedding band or transition (if it has one), and then taper slowly to the muzzle.  Rice's Griffin profile barrel with a 1.125" wide breech might be a good option.  Their French fowler with 1.25" breech might also work but it does not taper enough from the breech for my preference. The Dolep barrels are too skinny in the breech.  However, Jason is making one for Maria with a larger breech.  My shop should be getting it soon and I will post a description for you when it arrives.

dave

I agree with Dave. IIRC the guy who dimensioned the Rice Dolep did not use the barrel measurements off of the c1695 Dolep at the Royal Armories but based it on that one. I believe it has a much bigger breech but is only around 38" in length. 
Ed Rayl made a series of really nice barrels for a class Jim Kibler did a long while ago. I think Jim designed thst barrel off of a circa late 1740s gun by Thomas Richards that now resides in NC.  I think that barrel was 16 ga and had something like a 1 3/8" breech. It was about 40" long and had a nice little flare just at the muzzle. Here's a picture of the breech on the original

[Pukka Bundook]

When I was looking for a light barrel, the 16 gauge Griffin was lighter than any of the 20 gauge being offered.

It sounds like the Dolep may have that beat, but if breech a bit light I would consider the 16 gauge Griffin which has a good breech.

Best,
R.

[Justin Urbantas]

My plan for the build is a fowler that would've been used in America 1750-1770.

[James Rogers]

Kibler in 16

[JH Ehlers]

A Kibler in 16 would be nice and probably the cheapest and quickest option. 17th century vs 1750s fowling guns are totally different. If you use the Dolep barrel it needs an appropriate lock and would probably be better to make a late 17th century fowling piece with it. I just got one from Rice, it needs a lot of additional filing to get it up to Dolep standards.

[smart dog]

Hi,
At the Kempton Gun Maker's Fair, Maria and I had Jason measure an original round fowler barrel.  It is from this gun, which Jim Kibler knows well.
 






He is going to make one for us but I will ask him if he would like to add it to his stable of profiles he offers for sale.  This is a fine barrel from an excellent English birding gun probably exported to America during the 1760s or 1770s. The original is 14 gauge, 39" long, about 1 5/16" at the breech and just less than 7/8" at the muzzle.

dave

[rich pierce]

Justin, the fowlers in different regions of the colonies differed a lot. Club butt fowlers tended to be 12 gauge. Same with HVFs and British style howlers. And 46-60” long. Kentucky fowlers tended to have smaller barrels. So called New England fowlers (I say that because club butt fowlers were made in New England) were a mixed bag but many had French fusil barrels, or similar. I’m sure you have Grinslade’s book. Anyway it’s impossible to pin down one barrel type, shape, gauge, length, as appropriate for any and every type of 1750-1770 fowler made in the colonies.

[RICE BARREL CO]

The Dolep fowlers are made with 4140 steel.  The 20ga barrel will weigh 2 1/2 lb. The standard length is 41". I have made them longer as well as shorter.  As well as making just the breech larger. 

[Justin Urbantas]

2 1/2 lbs would be amazing.
Is that for the original profile or the full round barrel?
Do you know the weight of the 46" Griffing barrel? Thanks

[smart dog]

Hi,
As promised, here is the barrel by Rice.  It is Jason's Dolep profile in 20 gauge with a bigger breech.  The breech is slightly bigger than 1 1/8".  It tapers very rapidly to the wedding rings and remains thin the rest of the way.  It weighs 2 lbs 2 oz. and is made from 4140 steel.

 










dave