Author Topic: patch help  (Read 6980 times)

olgreenhead

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patch help
« on: December 24, 2009, 07:11:04 PM »
I tried shooting my 40 with a 18 thousands patch shoots well but need a range mallet to load no good in the rat woods . what materiel would maybe thinnner close to 15 thousands so it would be easier to load. oh im using a 390 ball and everything under the sun as lube.

Offline SCLoyalist

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Re: patch help
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2009, 07:18:32 PM »
Old cotton t-shirts are 8 to 10 thousandths, as I recall.   And fabric stores like JoAnns sell linen that falls around 15 thousandths.  Plus, East Maine Shooters Supply sells precut patches in a variety of thicknesses and lubes.    There's plenty of thinner cloth out there, but it takes some time and experimentation to find a patch material/lube combo that works for your gun.

SCL

IRONSIGHT

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Re: patch help
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2009, 08:40:29 PM »
Cabelas sells a large piece of pillow ticking thats .015".  I'm thinking its 2'x 4' , and the cost is around  7 bucks (i know not cheap at Cabelas). I did'nt take notice where your from, but here in PA. almost every gun shop sells non lubed  pillow ticking in .015". Good luck

Offline wvmtnman

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Re: patch help
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2009, 11:07:48 PM »
You might want to check your crown.  I like a deep (1/8 inch or so), 60 degree crown.  With that combo, you should not be having that much trouble to load the rifle. 
                                                                           Brian
B. Lakatos

Stonewall Creek

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Re: patch help
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2009, 01:49:22 AM »
we here at stonewall creek sell .015 patching in prelube cut round and in the .015 pillow ticking strip just let us know thanks troy.

Offline Ray Nelson

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Re: patch help
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2010, 08:35:05 PM »
I'm a bit surprised in the difficulty you have loading that patch-ball combination? My personal 40 Green Mt. barrel likes a .395 ball using .016 ticking the best. No need for a mallet either.

Also consider picking up some drill material at Joannes Fabric as well. I don't no if you remember a great shooter at Friendship named Don Davis (used to write articles in Muzzleloader, MB and Gun Report too) or not, but he made me a believer using this material. Mikes at around .017 and durable with rifling in different barrels.

.015 material is readily available at most dealers like Stonewall. It is good and I do like a thinner patch lubed with pure neatsfoot oil while loading a second round hunting in the -21 below conditions here in Minnesota.

You've had good advice from all these folks thaty posted so I think you are on the way to finding your right patching and crown.

Ray


Online satwel

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Re: patch help
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2010, 06:22:14 PM »
I second Ray's suggestion. Go to Joanne Fabrics and ask for 40lb drill cloth. Wash it and throw it in the drier to remove sizing and tighten the weave. After years of experimentation, I have found no material that beats it for patching. Works equally well with spit, mink oil, jojoba oil, Hoppes. Never any sign of burn through. I use a short starter to get it past the muzzle, then ball seats easily.

BrownBear

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Re: patch help
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2010, 07:51:52 PM »
I guess it's a good measure of how much extra mileage I put on pants, but by the time I abandon a pair of Carhart jeans or brown work pants to the rag bin, they mike exactly .015.  While most of my rifles do fine with .018 ticking, those old pants are my ready source of .015.

Offline Longknife

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Re: patch help
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2010, 07:53:06 PM »
A coned barrel will let you easily load a much tighter combination without the use of a short starter.... That is the way most antique muzzle loaders were made...Ed
Ed Hamberg

northmn

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Re: patch help
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2010, 08:20:41 PM »
Even if not coned I would double check the crown.  I always bought patching at a fabric store as I could get a yard for a reasonable price and it lasted a long time.  Still using some of it.  Muslin makes good thinner patches, drill and duck for thicker.  If you have a micrometer you can also mike them in the store.

DP

Daryl

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Re: patch help
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2010, 08:39:34 PM »
The shape and smoothness of the crown is of vital importance in your ability to load using only a short starter and hickory rod, with very tight combinations.  I use .020" to .025"(compressed in mic.) denim for all my guns with balls ranging from .009" undersized to bore size without having to use a mallet, or pounding the ball down the bore. The smooth crown allows loading tight combinations that would otherwise cut the patch or rivet the ball. The smooth angles, allow the ball to swage with the patch as it is seated into the muzzle with one whack of your hand on the starter'd knob. The starter has a nub that pushes the ball down into the muzzle about 1/8" to 1/4" from the top. From there, it is easily seated on the powder. Fouling buildup is caused by a couple things - primary is too thin a patch - secondary, is not enough lube- whatever you're using, somthing like animal oil to spit.  I only use the smaller balls in a .58 and the .32. All others use .005" under ball to .002" over bore size in my .40 and that one gets a .019" drill cloth patch. Loading is quite easy, but I've had a lot of practise.
These are the muzzles of some of my guns. Note the smoothness of the radiused crown. No cones here, just smoothed crowns that allow the ball and patch to swage into the bore. The smoothbore gets the same crown






Note how rough these bores are - reamer cross marking is incredible. Shot 40 shots per barrel on New Years day, yet all loaded easily, never any fouling buildup and when I cleaned the gun, the water turned a translucent grayish colour - not black in the least. Ask Taylor how it shot. 

Daryl

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Re: patch help
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2010, 04:40:41 PM »
Olgreenhead - check out these videos. In a shallow grooved Kodiak .58 double, I'm loading a .0215" ticking patch with a .562" ball.  Taylor is using a .495" ball in his .50 with a .022" denim patch.  Neither of us need a mallet, although our starters are substancial. Once the ball and patch are into the bore, they go down easily. The shape of the crown allows easy seating with one smack.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 04:41:34 PM by Daryl »

ken

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Re: patch help
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2010, 06:55:15 PM »
Did you wash the fabric first? This will get the sizing out of it and make it softer plus easier to load and work with.

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: patch help
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2010, 07:01:13 PM »
Did you wash the fabric first? This will get the sizing out of it and make it softer plus easier to load and work with.
Ok Ken if your the Ken I know you can run but you can't hide ;D

Glad you crawled on here...

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: patch help
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2010, 07:06:54 PM »
I tried shooting my 40 with a 18 thousands patch shoots well but need a range mallet to load no good in the rat woods . what materiel would maybe thinnner close to 15 thousands so it would be easier to load. oh im using a 390 ball and everything under the sun as lube.
Suggest you stop in at Wallyworld and check the fabs... They handle a floral print thin ticking that mikes at .008.  I used some doubled when I was short of .016.

I don't like thin patching myself; but it may work in your barrel for those treerats and it sounds as though your shooting is generally not at the long ranges 100 yds and such!

Daryl

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Re: patch help
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2010, 07:21:11 PM »
Did you wash the fabric first? This will get the sizing out of it and make it softer plus easier to load and work with.

The current ticking I'm using in all my rifles measured .030" new in the store, using calipers. Washed once then tumbled dry, it measures .0215 with the same calipers, and .018" with my 1" micrometer.

In a barrel with wide lands and narrow grooves, like my .32 barrel pictured above, a .311" ball works perfectly with it and easy loading with a 5/16" hickory rod.

In wide groove, narrow landed .40 barrel, also pictured above, I can shoot a .400" ball with the same patch, loading just like Taylor did in his video.

The other barrels along with the .40, use .395", .684" and .445" balls with the same patch. The balls are only .005" to .006" smaller than the bore, yet the seemingly heavy patch is easily loaded without having to use a range rod. None of my barrels have deep rifling which allows even heavier patches yet.